Andersons of Colonial N. Carolina

so I start this site in Virginia… go figure

Joseph Wall – Surry to Edgecombe

with 15 comments

I’m waiting for a GENIUS genealogist to explain the simple connection of Joseph Wall to Thomas Pitman of Surry Co., VA. (1600s)

He was… take your pick:

Step son

Son in law, or

A bastard son of Pitman.         http://www.jenforum.com/wall/messages/4155.html

Joseph Wall and family take the same track as the Thomas Pitman family from Surry Co, VA to the Meherrin River area where VA & NC border…

Wall, Joseph. grantee.

Land grant 20 April 1684.

Location: Surry County.

Description: 900 acres on the head of William Thompson’s land, on the north east side of the Cypress Swamp.

Surry Co., VA Deeds, Wills, Etc, Book 5 – 1694-1709, page 143

2 Nov 1697…Joseph Wall and wife, Susannah Wall, of Surry County to Roger Williams of Southwarke Parish in Surry County…70 acres of land in Southwarke Parish on south side of Cypress Swamp. Land is part of a patent for 1850 acres granted to Capt. William Corker, decd., on 6 Aug 1671 which 70 acres was sold to James Kilpatrick on 5 Jul 1690 by Mr. George Branch and wife, Susanna Branch who was one of the daughters of Capt. William Corker, decd. When James Kilpatrick died, the land descended to his only daughter, Sarah Kilpatrick, who died in her minority and the land then descended to her aunt, Susanna Wall the wife of Joseph Wall.

Wit: Dionisus Wright, Joseph Coren and William Foreman Joseph [X] Wall

Rec:2 Nov 1697

(some speculate this Susannah is a daughter of Thomas Pitman)

Wall, Joseph, Jr. grantee.

Land grant 28 April 1711.

Location: Isle of Wight County.

Description: 217 acres on the south side of the main Blackwater Swamp part in the County of Surry. Beg.g &c. on the east side of a branch a corner tree of the Nottaway Indians land.

Wall, Joseph, Jr. grantee.

Land grant 28 April 1711.

Location: Surry County.

Description: 200 acres on the south side the main Blackwater Swamp. Beginning at the mouth of a branch on the south east side Seacock.

Wall, Joseph. grantee.

Land grant 23 March 1715.

Location: Surry County.

Description: 200 acres on the south side of the main Blackwater Swamp. And on both sides of the Wild Catts Branch.

Wall, Joseph, Jr. grantee.

Land grant 9 July 1724.

Location: Isle of Wight County.

Description: 315 acres on the south side of Meherrin River. Beg.g &c. in the line that divides this government from North Carolina.

***source: Lib of Virginia online patents

By 1723 Joseph Wall, Sr and son(s) are living near the Meherrin River near the state border… very near Thomas Pitman d.1730.

Province of NC, 1663-1729, Abstracts of Patents, Hofmann

2241  pg. 177   JOSEPH WALL.  150 acres in Bertie precinct in Maherren Woods, joining Kerbys Creek  Witnesses: WM. REED, C. GALE, J. LOVICK, RICHARD SANDERSON, THOS. POLLOCK

Colonial Bertie Abstracts, 1720-1757,   Deed Books A-H,  BELL

A 365   THOMAS HOWELL, JUN. & WIFE ELIZABETH TO GEORGE WILLIAMS

Nov 9, 1724. *. 225 A Part of a patent for 450 A. dated Aug 4, 1723.  Granted to THOMAS HOWELL by WILLIAM REED, Esq. President and Commander-in-chief of Province.  Adj. Beaverdam Branch & GREAL (?) JOYNER.  Wit: JAMES TURNER, JOSEPH WALL, JUN.  Feb Court 1724

A 452   THOMAS TURNER TO RICHARD WALL

Feb 13, 1724/5.  20 pds. for 290 A. on SS Maherrin River.  Land being granted THOMAS TURNER Dec 3, 1720 on Cypress Swamp.  Wit: JAMES TURNER, JOSEPH WALL, SEN.  May Court 1725.  JOHN WINNS D. C/C

B 305   JAMES TURNER & WIFE ANN of IOW to JOSEPH WALL, SEN

Nov 7, 1724.  5 pds. for 100 A. On SS Morattock River at dividing line between THOMAS HOWEL, SEN and JOSEPH WALL.  Part of 640 A. tract dated March 1, 1719.  Wit: THOMAS HOWEL, GEORGE WILLIAMS, Aug Court 1727

B 306   JAMES TURNER of IOW to FRANCIS BOYKIN

Aug 3, 1727.  “…a valuable sum” for 240 A. On SS Mehherin River in Chowan Precinct.  Said land granted to JAMES TURNER by Hon. CHARLES EDEN, Esq. by patent dated March 1, 1719.  Part of 540 A. At mouth of Great Branch.  Wit: JOSEPH WALL, ROBERT HART.  August Court 1727

B 358   JOHN SIMPSON & WIFE MARY of Isle of Wight Co, to WILLIAM WALL

Feb 10, 1727/8.  4 pds. for 180 A. On SS Meherrin River.  Land granted SIMPSON by WILLIAM REED, Esq. President of the Province of North Carolina.  Grant dated Nov 7, 1723.  Adj. JAMES TURNER, HOPKINS HOWEL.  Wit: JOSEPH WALL, SEN, JOSEPH WALL, JUN.  Feb Court 1727.  EDW. MASHBORNE  D. C/C

By 1738 Joseph Wall is living in Edgecombe Precinct…

E 248   JOSEPH WALL, SEN & WIFE MARY of Edgecombe Prec’t to SAMUEL TAYLER (TAYLOR).  Feb 1, 1737/8.  “a valuable sum” for 175 A. Part of a patent for 325 A. On SS Meherrin River and Old County Line. Adj. ____ DELOOCH, ARTHUR COOK, S. TAYLOR.  Wit: THOMAS PHILLIPS, jurat,  NICHOLAS MONGER, jurat.  May Court 1738.*.

E 250   JOSEPH WALL, SEN. & WIFE MARY of Edgecombe Prec’t to THOMAS PHILLIPS Feb. 1, 1737/38.  “a valuable sum” for 150 A. Part of patent to JOSEPH WALL on SS Meherrin River at Old County Line.  Wit: SAM’LL TAYLOR, jurat, NICHOLAS MONGER, jurat.  May Court 1738. *.

E 380   JOSEPH WALL, SEN to EDWARD HOOD

Sep 5, 1738.  10 pds for 10 A. On SS “of the great Branch called Hopkins branch”.  Being part of a tract formerly granted JAMES TURNER “adjoining to land formerly was made over in open court by JOHN SIMPSON to WILLIAM WALL, Deceased…, with Relinquishment of my wife’s Dowry…”  Wit: NICHOLAS MONGER, RICHARD WALL, JUN., Jurat.  Feb Court 1738.*.

E 381   JOSEPH WALL, JUN of Edgecombe Precinct to EDWARD HOOD

Feb 13, 1738. 40 pds for 180 A. On SS Meherrin River.  Land “granted JOHN SIMPSON by WILLIAM REED, Esq.  President of the Province” dated Nov 7, 1723.  Adj. JAMES TURNER at TURNER’S Branch, HOPKINS HOWELL.  Wit: THOMAS JACKSON, THOMAS RYNA.  Feb Court 1738. *.

E 438   JOHN SPIER (SPEIR) of Edgecombe Precinct to JOSEPH WALL

May 7, 1739.  5 pds. for 50 A. On NS Fishing Creek at Short Swamp.  Adj. WILLIAM SPIER.  By patent dated Feb 17, 1737.  Wit: *.*  May Court 1739*.

——————–

Edgecombe Precinct Deeds, 1732-1758, Hofmann

DB 5, page 134    JOSEPH WALL of Edge. Co. to THOMAS HICKS of Edge. Co.15 Jan 1742  20 pounds Va. currency  150 acres on the north side of white Oak swamp, joining the swamp  all houses, orchards etc.  whereon the sd. HICKS now lives  Wit: WALTER MCFARLAN, ROBERT JONES  Reg. Edge. Co. Feb. Ct. 1742  R. Forster C. Ct.

DB5, page 410   JOSEPH WALL, JR of Edge. Co  to THOMAS TURNER of IOW, Va  20 Feb, 1744  5 pounds Va currency  50 acres more or less on Short swamp  part of a grant to WILLIAM SPIER  7 Feb 1737  Wit: WALTER MCFARLAN, WILLIAM SPIER  Reg. Edge Co Aug Ct 1745  R. Forster C.Ct.

DB5, page 410   JOSEPH WALL, JR of Edge. Co  to THOMAS TURNER of IOW, Va  22 Feb 1744/5 55 pounds VA currency  350 acres on the north side of Fishing creek and the east side of Lodging branch, joining Short swamp and WALTER MCFARLAN  whereon JOSEPH now lives  Wit: WALTER MCFARLAN, WILLIAM SPIER  Reg Edge. Co Aug Ct, 1745  R. Forster C. Ct.

DB5, page 412   JOSEPH WALL, JR (co. not identified) to THOMAS TURNER of IOW, Va  22 Feb 1744/5  20 pounds current money of  Va.  354 acres on the south side of Beech swamp  Wit: WALTER MCFARLAN, WILLIAM SPIER  Reg Edge. Co (month and year not given) C. Ct. (not given)

——————————–

Of course there is this guy who dies in 1727 which screws up my tidy little chronology…

1727*Surry Co., VA, Wills & Administration, Book 7, pg. 684 (1671-1750)

April 19th 1727… Will of Joseph Wall: Leg: To my son James Wall 100-acres bought of Thomas Miller to the land of James Wall. To son John Wall bible, sacrament book, tools, etc. To my daughter Elizabeth one chest, etc. To my son Joseph Wall 5-shillings and to son Richard Wall 5-shillings. Rest of Estate to my wife and son Robert Wall, after my funeral expense is paid. Make son, John Wall, Executor. Probated April 19th 1727 and witnesses: Robert Lancaster, Thomas Pittman.

Surry Co, VA Deeds, Wills Bk 3 pg 12: 4 Nov 1684, Deed of Phillip  Hunniford to Joseph Wall dated 6 Dec 1671. Joseph Wall and wife Susan  Wall sold land to Col. RICHARD JORDAN JR(II) on 18 Dec 1676 and it was  recorded in May 1677.  RICHARD JORDAN JR (II) and wife ELIZABETH JORDAN  made a deed for 200 acres to Robert Littleboy (Littleberry) 4 Nov 1684.     /s/ Richard Jordan Jr. Wit:  John Waller, Anthony X Evens [Evans]

On back of sale made to Joseph Wall by Phillip Hunniford for 200 acres,  recorded 2 Sep 1671 was written that Joseph and Susan Wall of Surry Co. had sold to RICHARD JORDAN JR (II) in Surry Co. land on Black Water in  1676.  Witnesses:  Chris Holleman and Thomas Pittman, Jr.

3 Jan 1687/8       “Joseph Wall being returned arrested to this court at the suit of Jno. Byneham & being called to come for the & answere the same but makeing noe appeareance” judgment granted to John Bynum for 400 lbs tobacco.  [Surry County Orders 1671-1691, p612]  Two days later, the sheriff was ordered to attach Wall’s estate.  The matter reached a trial two months later [see below].

6 Mar 1687/8      Jno. Byneham Senr. vs. Joseph Wall goes to a jury.  He accused Joseph Wall of killing a yearling or young beast of his, to the damage of 400 lbs tobacco.  Wall plead not guilty,  A jury found in favor of Byneham and awarded him 300 lbs tobacco in compensation .  [Surry County Orders 1671-1691, p633]

Joseph Wall had bought land in 1671 from Phillip Hunnsford [Hainsford] who had a patent adjoining the John Bynum Sr. patent of 1681.

Perhaps this all IS pretty simple and the early Joseph Wall above was merely associated with the “immigrant” Thomas Pitman…
Perhaps the 1727 Joseph was generation I and the 2 Edgecombe Josephs are II, and III.    … works for me
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Written by anderson1951

October 28, 2012 at 3:21 pm

15 Responses

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  1. I AM HOWARD E WALL BORN 1936 WASHINGTON D. C. MY LINE BACK TO JOHN WALL.. FROM DUTCHLAND TOO U.S.A. I HAVE THOMAS PITTMAN BORN 1614 MONMOUTHSHIRE ENGLAND DIED 1683 SURRY VIRGINIA 1 st WIFE FRANCES BIRTH 1620 IN ENGLAND OR SURRY VA. DEATH 4-oct -1666 IN SURRY VA ( mr. & mrs. PITTMANS – SUSANNAH PITTMAN BIRTH ABT 1642 IN ISLE OF WIGHT MARRIED TO JOSEPH WALL SURRY VA. 04-sep-1666 DEATH SURRY, VA. 19 -APR – 1727 CHILDREN 7 1-F AND 6-M . CHILDREN # 1 JAMES BIRTH 1668- # 2 JOHN BIRTH 1670 #3 ELIZABETH BIRTH 1672 #4 ROBERT BIRTH 1678 # 5 RICHARD BIRTH 1685 # 6 JEHU BIRTH 1686 # 7 JOSEPH WALL BIRTH 1689 IN MARYLAND ALL OF THE OTHERS IN SURRY, VA.

    HOWARD E WALL

    October 2, 2013 at 1:52 am

    • Hi Howard
      You might be interested in where I think the Wall property was in Surry County.
      see here… https://andersonnc.wordpress.com/some-surryiow-patents/

      One patent was near Cypress Creek (which branches off the Blackwater)… about 1684.

      Another was in Isle of Wight (near Seacock Swamp) about 1711… look for the red asterisk.

      These are “educated” guesses on my part but I think they are pretty accurate.

      Marc

      anderson1951

      October 2, 2013 at 4:36 pm

      • MARC THANKS FOR THE INFO MOST OF THIS LANDS ARE FOR jOSEPH JR., HE IS Son of my Joseph of Isle of Wight my Joseph married Capt Thomas Pittmans daughter from his ! st marriage to Frances i be live in England , she was born abt 1620 died 04-o
        ct-1666 in surry va. THANKS FOR ALL YOUR HELP !! ed wall

        HOWARD E WALL

        October 4, 2013 at 11:52 am

  2. A Joseph Wall, son of Richard and Frances Wall, was baptized 25 Dec 1647 in St. Margaret, Westminster, London, England. On 8 Jan 1649, Thomas Pitman married Francis Wall (some researchers claim the name was Hall, but being familiar with handwriting of that time I can tell you I almost 100% sure it was Wall). Within a year, according to Thomas Pitman’s 1677 deposition, he was a resident of Surry Co. VA. His deposition didn’t mention the actual year he arrived, but he said he’d lived in that county for 27 years, which would be about 1649. I believe that Roger Hutchinson’s 1667 Accomack Co. VA land patent in which he claimed Thomas Pitman, Fran Pitman, and Joseph Pitman, was for this couple and that was Frances’ son Joseph Wall with an incorrect name. So, Joseph Wall really was Thomas Pitman’s step-son in the way we use that term today. I am still looking into Richard and Frances ___ Wall in England, and I’ll keep you posted.

    Any feedback is appreciated.

    Vickie Elam White

    Vickie Elam White

    May 8, 2016 at 2:44 pm

    • Vickie, I am Howard E Wall Jr Birth 1936 Family Tree Y-DNA KIT # 84362 . Joseph Wall was Christened in the same church in 1647 ” father was Richard Wall ” and ” mother was Frances Wall. So Vickie ! I have to be live that the Male Y-DNA line goes bay the way of Joseph Wall to his father Richard Wall

      wallhoward

      July 13, 2016 at 5:15 am

      • Yes, I know that. See my above message. I was just being a devil’s advocate, saying that perhaps Thomas Pitman was having an affair with Frances Wall since they married just months after Joseph was born. That could explain why Walls trace their DNA back to Pitman. Or, there could have been another “non-parental event” (illegitimacy or adoption) more recently.

        vewhite

        July 13, 2016 at 6:02 pm

  3. [Edited] A Joseph Wall, son of Richard and Frances Wall, was baptized 25 Dec 1647 in St. Margaret, Westminster, London, England. On 8 Jan 1649, Thomas Pitman married Francis Wall in St. Clement Danes, Westminster, London, England (some researchers claim the name was Hall, but being familiar with handwriting of that time I can tell you I almost 100% sure it was Wall). Within a year, according to Thomas Pitman’s 1677 deposition, he was a resident of Surry Co. VA. His deposition didn’t mention the actual year he arrived, but he said he’d lived in that county for 27 years, which would be about 1649. I believe that Roger Hutchinson’s 1667 Accomack Co. VA land patent in which he claimed Thomas Pitman, Fran Pitman, and Joseph Pitman, was for this couple and that was Frances’ son Joseph Wall with an incorrect name. So, Joseph Wall really was Thomas Pitman’s step-son in the way we use that term today. I am still looking into Richard and Frances ___ Wall in England, and I’ll keep you posted.

    Any feedback is appreciated.

    Vickie Elam White

    Vickie Elam White

    May 8, 2016 at 2:54 pm

  4. I forgot to mention that Richard Wall was buried in St. Margaret’s Westminster on 8 Dec 1648, less than 2 months before his widow Frances re-married to Thomas Pitman. Which could explain the recent DNA findings for the Wall descendants who find their match Thomas Pitman – perhaps Thomas was Joseph Wall’s biological father all along? Or the “non-parental event” could have happened much further downstream, in Virginia. Obviously more research is needed.

    Vickie Elam White

    Vickie Elam White

    May 10, 2016 at 8:39 am

    • I would love to learn more about this as I recently received my dad’s FTDNA results and sure enough (his last name Pittman) there are matches to Walls!

      Amber

      July 12, 2016 at 1:20 pm

      • Amber, I am Howard E Wall Jr ( Family Tree Y-DNA Test KIT # 84362 ) birth 1936 my line is back to Joseph’s Wall, The Male Y-DNA Must take the Wall Line back to Richard Wall Joseph’s Father His Mother was Frances Wall. ” I be live my Sister’s MT- DNA Test will go back to Frances Wall’s name “. I hope this helps you with your research !!. ED Wall Jr.

        wallhoward

        July 13, 2016 at 8:01 am

  5. I see you on the match list! I will email you!

    Amber

    July 13, 2016 at 10:02 am

  6. I’m curious with all this DNA spit being sloshed around if anyone has any info if any British cousins across the pond have any matches with any American cousins???

    “A Joseph Wall, son of Richard and Frances Wall, was baptized 25 Dec 1647 in St. Margaret, Westminster, London, England. On 8 Jan 1649, Thomas Pitman married Francis Wall in St. Clement Danes, Westminster, London, England”

    A little proof would be nice for me to add the above tidbit to my chronicle of generations… just sayin’.

    Marc aka anderson1951

    anderson1951

    July 13, 2016 at 6:19 pm

  7. DNA favors the bastard option

    Kevin Wall

    October 17, 2017 at 2:35 pm

  8. That settles it then!… oh wait… what?

    anderson1951

    October 17, 2017 at 3:53 pm


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