Andersons of Colonial N. Carolina

so I start this site in Virginia… go figure

John Rogers notes

with 20 comments

Apr 20, 1680, Richard Booth obtained a patent of 560 acres of land in Isle of Wight County on Corowaugh Swamp (W.D. 1,pp.473; DB 1, pp 53-54).  Nov 8, 1681 he assigned his interest in this land to Thomas mann and his wife Elizabeth with John Rogers and Charles Mann as witnesses (DB1, p.473)  On that same day Richard Booth sold to his sister’s husband, John Rogers, 100 acres on Beaver dam Swamp; and on the next day, Nov 9, 1681 he gave 100 acres adjacent to his sister Mary Rogers (Ibid, p.463) [Boddie, Southside Virginia families]… Boddie purports Thomas Mann married another sister of Booth, i.e., Elizabeth Booth.

(Booth had two different patents… one on Corowaugh Swamp and another about 3 mile to the southwest on Beaver Dam Swamp… see my Surry/IOW map)

On 9 June 1690 Thomas Man and his wife Eliz. sold the other 150 acres on Blackwater River (of the 300 acre original grant dated 22 September 1682) to Theopilius Joyner. Wit: Will. Mayo and Rich. Booth. Theopilius Joyner and his wife Elinor assigned this piece to Thos. Joyner, Jr. in October 1695. Then, Thomas Joyner and his wife Eliz. (?) assigned the same 150 acre parcel to Bridgeman Joyner on 15 December 1699. (Source: Seventeenth Century Isle of Wight County, Virginia by John Bennett Boddie, page 640.)  (An Indian Trader by the name of James Millikin married the daughter of Joseph Joyner… he lived on Quankey Creek near the Roanoke River and numerous other Traders near Occoneechee Neck… he also dealt with Traders in Saxe Gotha, SC, among whom are Joseph Joyner, brother to the wife of James Millikin.  Others are Richard Jackson, Philip Rayford of isle of Wight and James Long/Lang of Occoneechee Neck and Gideon Gibson, husband of a daughter of William Browne.)  (A son of Bridgeman Joyner married a daughter of John Browne… see my John Browne thread)

Thomas Mann [Senior] and his wife Eliz. sold 150 acres on Blackwater River to Theophilus Joyner in exchange for 2,050 pounds of tobacco. The 150 acres was part of the above mentioned 300 acre grant to Thomas Man dated 22 September 1682. The site was adjoining property owned by Wm. Mayo and Bridgeman Joyner. Wit: Wm. Mayo and Richard Booth. (Source: Seventeenth Century Isle of Wight County, Virginia by John Bennett Boddie, page 594.)

By 1700, Richard Booth, John Browne and Thomas Mann Jr had removed to Wiccocon Creek in North Carolina. John Rogers Jr/soon Sr was living by Thomas Browne in Nansemond, each getting a patent in 1700.

Richard Booth and John Browne each died in 1713. They were OLD Indian Traders. Their old age coincided with the demise of the Indians around their old stomping grounds of Nottoway River, the Blackwater and Meherrin Rivers… the number of Indians could no longer support the “Trade”.  The Nottoway, Meherrin, Chowans and Tuscaroras were just about toast. The “Trade” moved to the Cherokees. Some of the sons of these folks followed it… the sons that stayed became planters, turpentine distillers or tradesmen.  Or drunks and rouges… I get a kick out of them. (Valentine Braswell?)

So… I start at the end of some of these folks and we need to back up a bit to figure out the multitudinous John Rogers… obviously I am looking for Traders.

———————————————

Isle of Wight Deed Book 2, p. 500, Nov. 24, 1722, John Rogers, Jr. of

North Carolina, Yeoman, to James Counsill, 100 acres formerly in

possession of Richard Boothe, and Richard Boothe devised to Mary Rogers,

ye mother of the said John Rogers, Jr.  and now by ye said

John Rogers, Jr.  and his father John Rogers  deeded to

James Councill. Done by his wife the full consent of his wife, Bridget

Rogers, and John Rogers, Sr., of North Carolina, Yeoman, to William

Daughtrey, Jr., 100 acres in Isle of Wight Co.

Mary Rogers, the sister of Richard Booth was the MOTHER of John Rogers, Jr.  the husband of Bridget.  This deed also states that John Rogers SR is still living in 1722.  Both of these guys are also now living in North Carolina.

So we have to deal with a third John Rogers who dies in Nansemond between 1700 and 1703 who is the Grandfather of the above guy. OR THE ABOVE ABSTRACT IS WRONG… I got it off the internet and (not to besmirch the poster) don’t necessarily trust it… so here is an “official abstract” by Hopkins… (which is vague about the Rogers SENIOR connection)

Isle of Wight County, Deeds, 1647-1719…etc, W.L. Hopkins

(p.500)  24 Nov 1722…. John Rogers, Jr., Yeoman, and wife, Bridgett Rogers, of North Carolina to James Councill, Yeoman, of the lower parish of Isle of Wight….  100 acres in the lower parish adjoining William Daughter, Jr., Hodges Council, Daniell Davis and Abraham Rixs (Ricks) (being land formerly in the possession of Richard Booth who devised it to Mary Rogers the Mother of the said John Rogers, Jr. in a deed dated 8 Nov 1681…. mention of “John Rogers, Jr. and his father John Rogers, Sr.).

Wit.  Robert Lawrence, Richard (X) Beale and James Holland.

Rec: 26 Nov 1722                           John (X) Rogers, Jr.

Bridgett Rogers

So… it would be helpful to actually consult the original…

the 1700 patent…

Rogers_John1700short

And the Godwin patent which refers to the will of John Rogers Sr…

Rogers_Godwin1714

partial transcript…

Anne_To all_etc… Three pounds five shillings… We have given granted… Thomas Godwin of the County of Nansemond…[878] acres… Southeast side of a swamp called the Short Swamp of Sumerton Creek [metes & bounds described]… [878] acres… formerly granted to William Howell by Patent bearing date the 20th of April 1685 for three hundred acres and by him the sd. Howell sold & assigned to Jno. Rogers dec’d as by his Deed dated the 20th of feby 1686/7 doth may appear & two hundred acres part thereof since made over by Deed from the sd. Jno. Rogers unto Wm Rogers and by the sd. Wm Rogers conveyed to the sd. Capt. Thos. Godwin by deed dated the 12th of October 1703 fifty acres another part was by the last Will & Testament of the said John Rogers Devised to his son Thomas Rogers and by him the sd. Thomas sold & Conveyed to the aforesd. Godwin by Deed bearing date the 25th day of November 1709 as by the Records of Nansemond County Court may appear, six hundred twenty acres another part thereof is apart of the Overplus land found when the ancient & known bounds of the aforesd Patent for three hundred acres granted as aforesd withall… To have hold etc… 1714

The Godwin patent doesn’t say “when” John Sr dies… simply he got the patent by 1686…. so his death date is not established.  But between 1686 and 1703 he has died and “willed” the property to his sons…
His missing will devised some land to
1. William
2. Thomas
William sold to Godwin in 1703… Thomas sold to Godwin in 1709
———————–
A little more math…
From the 1700 Nansemond patent to John Rogers JUNIOR…
“Beginning at a corner tree Joseph Rogers…crossing the sd swamp to…a tree of William Howell’s patent now in the possession of HIS FATHER John Rogers SENR…”
So… he dies between 1700 (the John Rogers JUNIOR patent) and 1703 (the Thomas Godwin patent).
I’m counting three KNOWN sons… John Jr, William and Thomas (all proven by these two deeds above)

So with the above being said… is this Mary Rogers possibly NOT the sister of Richard Booth?   Is this the Mary Atkins that other researchers refer to?

Surry County records, Eliz. T. Davis

Page 328.  9 Feb. 1682/3  Mary Rogers, wife of Jno. Rogers, makes Edward Baly her atty. in right of dower to sell to Edward Grantham.  Jno. Rogers was of Isle of Wight County.  John Due, Rich. Lucas.

…commenter Rogers Smith adds this:  The Grantham  sale document had a legal action on the back that referred to Mary , wife of John (I) as “Mary ye elder” and John Rogers (II)  “John ye younger”

————————-

Actually there are 2 deed references 2 days apart as the Grantham sale takes place…

Surry County records, Eliz. T. Davis

Page 328.  9 Feb. 1682/3  Mary Rogers, wife of Jno. Rogers, makes Edward Baly her atty. in right of dower to sell to Edward Grantham.  Jno. Rogers was of Isle of Wight County.  John Due, Rich. Lucas.

Surry County Records, 1652-1684- Eliza Timberlake Davis

Page 318. 7 9ber 1682. John Rogers, Sr., appoints his wife. Mary Rogers ye elder, his lawful attorney to collect his debts etc.  Josiah Hacume?, John Rogers, Younger. Jno. Rogers, Jr., – made oath to same.

And now this gets really tricky with the dates because the below deposition is 4 months before the above land deal… why?  

Surry Co., Va., Deeds & Wills 1671-1684, p. 307, May 2, 1682, deposition of John Young, aged 36, that he took Robert Lea and his wife, and John Rogers’ wife and child to Lynnhaven, they intending to go Southward.

Since this reference is 4 months earlier it could be unrelated to the Grantham sale… in other words, a Rogers other that John Sr. So this is not proof that John Sr relocated to Nansemond.  It does suggest that “a” John Rogers is moving to Nansemond, aka, Lynnhaven.  In this book ‘Brief abstract of Lower Norfolk county and Norfolk county wills, 1637-, Volume 1 By Charles Fleming McIntosh’ the author states: “In the Miscellaneous Index, all place-names are given except “Elizabeth River” and “Lynnhaven”, one or the other of which appears in practically every will.”

http://books.google.com/books?id=NmAWAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA62&lpg=PA62&dq=%22robert+spring%22+norfolk&source=bl&ots=occDf6UlQ0&sig=ol7D2zjFtfnd2iahiTApMQNnLZg&hl=en&ei=U-RKTL6hJIP_8AbH0tUz&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&#v=onepage&q=lynnhaven&f=false

But, in effect, that short little deposition is stating almost exactly where John Senior’s property actually was in Nansemond. It would have been less precise had John Young, aged 36, said Kingsale for instance.  Lynnhaven was actually south of Kingsale. So, circumstantially, this IS proof.

——————-

Backing up in time… this is John Roger’s patent in Surry in 1666…

Roger_patent1666

Who was Daniel Rogers and was there a relationship?  I don’t know.  But here is the tithables from 1673 and he is not noted.

rogersTITH1673

Note Arthur Jordan… a near neighbor… my guess is that John Rogers and”John Dicson” were employed by Capt Jordan in 1659.  By 1673 the “Capt” had become “Lt. Coll.” George Jordan.

Surry County Deeds and Wills–Bk 1 pg 141–24 Jan 1659–“Arthur Jordan swore in court that John Dicson being upon his death bead, this deponent asked how he did disposte of his estate. He gave unto John Rodgers all his hoggs that run in the wood, all his wearing clothes also a new broad cloath shurte which he the Capt Jordan owed him in parte of his wages two pare of nitt yarne stockings, one pare of new shooes, one now Lockerhum schurte which hee likewise said Capt Jordan owed him and in pte of his wagges, and he desired to be buried decently and christianly like a Christian”

================

The list below covers over 30 years so it is worth the effort to digest it slowly… I put in several folks that I personally am interested in (looking for Indian Traders) but also to keep a perspective of where they were living.  The more you compare, the easier it is to get a handle on the area (the list takers also help).  I’ll include a map at the end to help.

Surry Tithables…..  Virginia Magazine of Genealogy, Virginia Genealogical Society

1668                             “Lawnes Creek”

Joseph Rogers, 1

“Southwark”

Richard Rogers, 1

Joh: Rogers & Atkins, 2

Mr Ben: Harrison, 5

Lt Coll Jordan, 3

* taken by Mr Geo: Jordan

“Colledge to Smiths fort”

Edwond Howell, 1

Mr Tho: Warren, Wm Warren, Wm Hill, Vincent Shutlewoth, Hen: Aplewhaite, James Nibley,

Wm Howell, Robt Evens, 1 negro, 9

* by Tho: Warren

1669

“from Coll: Jordans House upwards”

Rich Rogers, 1

Mr Benj: Harrison, 5

Mr. Arthur Jordan, 1

Joh: Rogers, 1

Rich: Atkins, 1

Lt Coll Geo: Jordan, 3

“Lawnes Creek”

Joseph Rogers, 2

==========================================

Early Virginia Families Along the James River, Louise Foley

Mr, John Bashear, 235 acs., Surry Co., near head of Up. Chipoakes Cr., 20 Apr. 1682, p. 134.  Part of 900 acs. granted Mr. Edward Travis & this part by Johnson sold to Mr. George Steevens, from whom it descended to sd. Brashear, as marrying Mary, dau. of Col. Robert Pitt & heir at law to sd. Steevens.  Sd. land adj. the orphans of Rich. Rogers, by Burchen Sw. Cr., Mr Benjamin Harrison’s line; to Richard Hide, &c.

Richard Rogers was living relatively close to John Rogers… a Daniell Rogers had adjoining property to John Roger’s patent of 1666… relationship unknown…. but of the same age group apparently.

=========================================

1670                           “Lawnes Creek”

Joseph Rogers, 3

“Lt Coll Jordans upwards”

Joh: Rogers, 1

Rich Rogers, 1

Rich Adkins, 1

Tho: Gibson

* by Geo: Jordan   Benja: Harrison

1673

John Rogers 1

1674

John Rogers & Sonn, 2

1675

John Rogers, 2

1676

there was no list, due to Bacon’s Rebellion

1677

Jno. Rogers & Wm & Jno his sons, 3

1678

Jno Rogers & Jno Rogers his son and Danll. his son, 3

William Rogers at ye widow Owen,1

=============

Rogers, Jno anys. Rich Rogers to be with Richard Hide, p. 10: 15 June 1678, Upon ye petition of Rich: Hide, it is Ordered that Jno: Rogers Orpt. of Rich: Rogers deced to remaine with the said Rich: Hide untill the next orphants Cort & that he have the sd. Orpht. Estate and give security for the same until ye sd next orphans Crt., where he the s. & his sd. Estate will either be continued or removed as the Cort. shall judge.  (source unknown… this is off the web)   … this answers a lot of questions…
=============

1679 – the dog ate this year… it is gone in my files…

1680

“in ye upper end of Southwarke Parish”

Jno. Rogers, 1

Rich: Cartright, 1

Wm. Carpinder, Wm. Chivers, Ja: Pallett, Eliz: Blith, 4

Jno. Dun, 1

Benj: Harrison, Jno. Battle, Dick Kate Negroes, 4

* list by Benj: Harrison

—————

Wm. Roger, 1

Jno. Rogers Senr., 1

* list by Wm: Browne

1681

Wm Rogers & Joshua Proctor, 2

Jno. Rogers Senr. & Ja: Smith, 2

Jno. Rogers Junr., 1

* list by Will Browne

1681

“Chipoakes precinct”

Jos: Rogers, Jno Gardner, David Arthur & Wm: Blye, 4

* list by Robt Ruffin

1682

Jno. Rogers, 1

Wm Rogers, 1

Jos: Procter, 1

* list by Will Browne

————–

” Lower Chipoakes & blackwater in Lawnes Creek”

Joseph Rogers, Wm Bly, Jno. Gardner, Roger Puleston, 4

1683

*Chipoakes precinct”

Jos: Rogers, Tho: White, Tho: Broome, John Gardner, & Wm Bly, 5

” Black-Water Precinct”

“To ye Parrish”    Jos. Rogers   p[er] Ralph Holton -1

* list by Robt: Ruffin

—————

“uper Sunken Marsh”

Tho: Wiggins & Jno. Rogers, 2

John Rogers, 1

John Dunn, 1

* list by Benj. Harrison

—————–

Wm Rogers, Rob. Owen, 2

Edward Grantham, 1

* list by Sam. Swann

1684

Jno: Little, Jno: Proctor, 2

Jos: Rogers, Tho Last & Jack a Negro, 3

* list by Ar: Allen

—————-

Joshua Procter, Rob: Owen, 2

Wm. Rogers, 1

*list by Sam: Swann

—————-

Rich: Hide, Jno. Rogers, 2

*sidenote… laughing… some folks have tried to connect this Richard Hide with a pirate who was dumped off (well, cast off! mateys!)… great tale!… might be true (Hide or Hyde IS mentioned in the Colonial records)….. you just can’t make this stuff up.

*list by Benja: Harrison

The son of this Benjamin Harrison will go on to establish plantations (around 1700 or so) adjacent to the Nottoway Indian reservation near the intersection of Nottoway and Blackwater River area… I have no doubt the old man Harrison had been there for years, but it was technically illegal.  Another son (I think) went on to partner with the pissant Philip Ludwell and do the depositions during the 1707 & 1710 Virginia/NC border disputes…  Mention is made there of the Charles Merritt that I cite in these tiths… Merritt winds up near the Rogers in North carolina…

1685

Rich: Hide, Jno. Rogers, And: Case, 3

Owen Mirick, 1

An Owen Myrick removes to the Three Creeks area of modern Southampton in the early 1700s… a few miles from the Robert Hicks and Arthur Kavenaugh properties at modern Emporia, VA.  They were notorious Indian Traders.  This (probably son) Owen Myrick removes to Edgecombe County, NC some years later near Swift Creek and a William Pitman… this is my interest. A “Myrick” eventually removes to the Saxe Gotha township in South Carolina…1730s (a hotbed of Cherokee Traders… if you catch my drift).

Jno. Battell, Jno. Rogers, 2

*list by Benja: Harrison

——————-

Edward Grantham, 1

Wm. Rogers, 1

Joshua Proctor, Rob: Owen, 2

*list by Sam: Swann

——————–

Jos: Rogers, Tho: Dereham, Rich: May, Tho: Hollowell, Jos: Hoyle, 5

*list by Ro: Caufield

1686

“Lawnes Creek”

Jos: Rogers, 1

*list by Robert Ruffin

——————–

Joshua Proctor, 1

Robert owen, 1

Wm Roger, 1

Jno: Dine, Elias Fort, Tho: Booth, 3

Edw. Grantham, 1

*list by Sam Swann

1686

Tho: Melton, Jno. Rogers, 2

1687

Edward Grantham, Andrew Spenser, 2

*list   Samuel Swann

================

15 June 1687. Jno. Moring and Tho. Wiggins presenting themselves in Cort. Security for Richard Hide due paymt of Jno. Rogers orphant of Rich: Rogers decd his parte of his said deced. father’s Estate they are accepted and the Cort. Ordered to take bond.

Richard Rogers Orphant of Rich. Rogers deced. is by the Court bound to Mr. Jno. Moring till he come to age, the said Moring in Court oblidging himselfe to pay the said Rogers at the Expiration of his time one thousand pds. of tobo. three barrells of Corne & Cloaths It is therefore Ordered that Indentures be made & signed accordingly
==================

——————–

Joshua Procter, 1

Robert Owens, 1

William Rogers, 1

*p. Sam. swann

———————

Owen Mireck & Jno. Gardner, 2

Jno. Rogers & Nath: Phillips, 2

*per Benja. Harrison

———————

“Lawnes Creek”

Joseph Rogers, 1

*P  Robt. Ruffin

1688

Owen Mirick, 1

Jno. Rogers, Nath. Harrison, 2

*P   Benja: Harrison

———————

Wm. Rogers, 1

Ed. Grantham, 1

Joshua Prockter, 1

Rob: owen, 1

*p    Robt. Randall

——————–

Jos: Rogers, Wm Wood, Richard Dorman & Benja. Giddion, 4

1689

“Sunken marsh”

Jno. Rogers & Tho: Evins, 2

*p  Benja. Harrison

——————–

Wm: Rogers, 1

Mr. Ar: Jordan, River Jordan, Charity a negro woman, 3

John Due, John ffort, Wm: Thorne, 3

Saml. Swann, Tom a molatto, Will. Mary Kate, Negroes, 5

Joshua Procter, 1

Edward Grantham, 1

*p  Samuel Swann

——————–

Jos: Rogers, Ja: reddick & John Ayres, 3

*  Mr. Robt. Ruffin

1690

Owen Mirick, 1

Jno. Rogers, 1

* Benja: Harrison

———————

Wm. Howell, 1

Edwd. Grantham, Andrew Spencer, 1

Joshua Procter, 1

Robt: Owen, 1

Jno. Due, Elias Fort, Jno. Fort, 3

Wm. Rogers, 1

*p. Samuel Swann

——————

“Lawnes Creek”

Jos: Rogers, Phil. Gibbs, Geo: Avery, Joh Thom: English, 5

*per  Robert Ruffin

1691

Owen Mirick, 1

Ralph Hill, John Rogers, 2

Benja: Harrison Senr, Ben: Harrison junr, Tho: Haynes, Silas Smith, Charles merritt, Jno. Morgan, fifteen

negroes, one Indian, 22

*p   Benja Harrison

———————

Joshua Procter, 1

Wm Howell, 1

Wm. Rogers, 1

Mr. John Moring, Jno: Attwell, Richd: Rogers, 3

Edward Bayley, 1

*p Tho: Swann

———————-

“Lawnes Creek”

Jos: Rogers, Phill: Gibbs, Tom: English, 3

1692

Joseph Rogers, John Price, ffrancis Gregory, an old Shoemaker, 4

——————-

“uper Sunken Marsh”

Jno: Rogers, 1

Charles Merritt, 1

Owin & Tho: Mirick, 2

Wm Ray, 1

1693

“Lawnes Creek”

Jos: Rogers, Wm Watson, Wm. Shepard, Jno. Davis, Francis Grigory, 5

———————

“upper Sunken Marsh”

Owen & Tho: Mirick, 2

Wm Ray, 1

Cha: Merritt, 1

Geo: Jordan, 1

Jno. Procter, 1

Tho: Hix, 1

Jno. Roger, 1

Rich: Hide, Wm: Rachell, 2

Benj: Harrison, Silas Smith, Tho: Haines, fourteen Negroes and 1 Indian, 18

*P  Benja: Harrison

———————

“Middle precinct of Southwarke”

Mr. Ar: Jordan, Charity, Neg:, 2

Joshua Procter, 1

Wm Howell, 1

Edwd. Bayly, 1

Edwd. Grantham, Jno. Grantham, 2

Wm. Elliot, 1

Wm. Rogers, 1

* Fra. Clements

1694

“Upper Sunken Marsh”

Owen & Tho: Mirick, 2

Jno. Rogers, 1

Geo: Jordan, a negro boy, 2

Charles Merritt, 1

Rich Hide, Wm. Rachell, 2

* p  Benja: Harrison

———————-

“ye Middle precinct”

Wm. Howell, 1

Robt: Warren, 1

Wm. Rogers, 1

Robt: owen, 1

————————

“Lawnes Creek”

Jos: Rogers & Fra: Grigory & Jno. davidson, 3

Coll. Ludwell, 16 slaves (named), 17

(I’m thinking this is Phillip Ludwell…aka, castletrash)

                     * P  John Thompson

1695

“upper Sunken Marsh”

Richd. Hide, 1

John Rogers, 1

Wm: Rachell, 1

Wm Ray, 1

Geo: Jordan, 1

Charles Merritt, 1

Owen Mirick & Tho: Mirick, 2

Tho: Hux, 1

————————

“ye middle princt of Southwarke”

Mr. Arthur Jordan, Charity, 2

Wm: Howell, 1

Edward Baley, 1

Edwd. Grantham to ye pish, 1

John Grantham, 1

Rich.Smith to ye pish, 1

Joshu. Procter, 1

Robt. Owen, 1

Wm Rogers, 1

* [list by]   Wm: Browne junr.

————————–

“Lawnes Creek”

Jos. Rogers, ffran Grigory, John Price & Ro: Hunicutt, 4

* Jno: Thompson

1696

“uper Sunken Marsh”

Rich. Hide, 1

John Rogers, 1

River Jordan, 1

Geo: Jordan 7 1 negro, 2

John Battle, 1

Cha: Meritt & Fra. West, 2

Owin & Tho: Mirick, 2

*p Benja: harrison

John Warren to ye pish

———————

“midle pcinct of Southwarke”

Edward Baly, 1

Robt. Owin, 1

Wm. Rogers Junr, 1

Tho: Bage, Wm. Elfeck, Wm Rogers, James an Indian, 4

Joshua Procter, 1

Edwd. Grantham to ye pish, 1

*p Wm. Browne, junr.

———————-

“Lawnes Creek”

Jos: Rogers, John Price, Jno: James & black Tom, 4

1697

“Lawnes Creek”

Jos: Rogers & Jno. James, Tom & Esbell negroes, 4

* William Newsom

———————

“ye midle pcinct of Southwarke”

Jno. Grantham, 1

Wm Rogers Senr & Junr, 2

Wm Howell, 1

Edward Balye, 1

Tho: Bage, Wm. Ellfeck, Wm: Rogers, James an Indian, 4

”’

Edwd, Grantham……….

Rich. Smith………………   to ye pish???

*p Wm: Browne junr.

—————————–

“upper pcinct of southwarke”

Geo: Jordan & one negro, 2

Charles Meriott, 1

John Battle, 1

Richd. Hide, 1

Owen & Tho: Mirick, 2

Wm Ray, 1

Jno. Warin to ye pish, 1

* p Wate fflood

1698

“Southwarke parish”

William Howell, 1

Thomas Bage and Wm. Elfeck, James  Ind, 3

Richard Jordan junr & Tho. Smith, 2

George Fort, 1

Wm. Rogers and Wm. Rogers junr, 2

Robert owen, 1

Joshua Proctor & Robt Proctor, 2

Jno. Smith, 1

Richard Smith to y pish -1

————————-

“upper precinct of Southwarke”

Wm Wray, 1

Mr. Benja: Harrison  [list[, 15

Mr. Arthur Jordan & Charity negr, 2

John Battle, 1

Wm Rogers, 2

Richard Hyde, 1

George Jordan & George Negr, 2

Owen Mirack, 1

Edward Grantham to thr parish, 1

*p Water Flood

“Lawnes Creek”

no Rogers

1699

“upper pcinct of Southwarke”

Owen Mirick, 1

John Battle, 1

George Jordan & 1 neg: man called George, 2

Richd. Hide, 1

Wm. Rogers, 1

Benja: Harrison [list] , 17

Edward Grantham to the parish

* Fra: Clements Cl Cur.

———————–

“Middle precinct of Southwarke”

Robert Warren, 1

Wm. Howell, 1

George Fort, 1

William Wray, 1

Wm: Rogers and Wm. Rogers junr, 2

Lawrence Hunt, 1

Joshua Proctor and Robt. Proctor, 2

*p J. Edwards

————————-

“lower precinct of Southwarke”

Richard Smith junr, 1

Richard Smith To the parish -1

*p J. Edwards

1700

“upper Southwarke”

Benja. Harrison [list], 17

John Battle & Geo: Smith, 2

Robert Owen, 1

Tho: Bentley, Tho: Rogers & Tom a negr., 3

Wm Rogers & Wm Moss, 2

Richard Hide, 1

Samll Briggs & Wm. Rogers junr, 2

George Jordan, George & Tom negr., 3

Owen Mirack, 1

Jno. Warren………….

Edward Grantham…

Henry Baylet……….. to the parish

* p Wm. Cocke

———————

“Middle precinct of Southwarke”

Wm. Howell, 1

1701

Benja: Harrison Esq [list]……… 16

George Jordan, Tom & George negr., 3

Robert Owen, 1

Thomas Bentley, Tho: Rogers, Jno. Davis, Wm Rice & Tom negr., 5

Owen Mirack and Owen his son, 2

Jno. proctoer, 1

Richard Hide, 1

John Battle, 1

Henry Baker at Jno. Battles, 2

Jno. Warren……………..

Edward Grantham……. To the parish

* Wm Cocke

————————-

“Middle and lower Southwarke”

Josh proctor, Robt proctor, 2

Wm Ray, 1

Wm Howell, 1

Wm Rogers sr, 1

Wm Rogers jr, 1

* p Wm Browne jur

================================= I did not search further…

 Click map twice to enlarge… use Ctrl + to enlarge even more (just remember to Ctrl – to get back to your usual page size)Map_Surry_Rogers

 —————————-

Bk 4 pg 467–6 Jan 1684–”John Dunn and Hester, the wife of John Rogers, Jr having been presented by the Church Wardens of Southwarke Parish for being suspected to live in Adultry, it is therefore ordered that the Sheriffe summon the said Jno Dunn, John Rogers Jr and Hester, his wife, to appeare at the next Cort to answere the said complaints, and Robert Nichollson to testifye his knowledge against the said suspected persons”

I would love to dump this abstract and say it was ANOTHER John Rogers but I can’t… something fishy is going on and I can’t figure it out?  Look where this guy Dunn moves to and did the name Hester turn into Easter?   Is this just a bizarre coincidence?

1726 – April 25, WILLIAM BAKER, Gent., of the upper parish of Nansemond County to JOHN DUNN of the lower parish of Isle of Wight….100 acres in the lower parish on Beverdam Swamp and bounded by Kingsale Swamp (being part of a patent granted MATHEW STRICKLAND for 902 acres who sold part of the land to HENRY BAKER, Gent., decd., on 11 May 1696 who willed it to his son, the said WILLIAM BAKER).  Wit: JOHN BOWEN, ARTHUR WHITEHEAD and JOHN RICE.    WILLIAM BAKER   (page 740, IOW Great Book, Vol. 2)

 1737 – June 25, from JOHN DUNN of the Lower Parish of IW, with the consent of EASTER, his wife, to MOSES DAUGHTRY of same, for 70 barrells of merchantable tar and 30 shillings in cash, one certain messuage tract of land in the Lower Parish of IW at a place called the Bever Dam Swamp and Kingsale, and bounded by the east side of Kingsail (Kinsale) Swamp at the mouth of the Bever Dam Swamp, containing 100 acres of land where the plantation now is., it being a part of a patent granted to MATTHEW STRICKLAND for 900 acres.   Signed – JOHN DUNN, ESTHER (her mark) DUNN. Wit – WILLIAM (W) DAUGHTRY, WILLIAM (F) FOWLER, ELY ELY. EASTER, wife of the said JOHN DUNN, relinquished her right of dower to the lands conveyed. Recorded June 27, 1737 (page 118, IOW Deed Book 5) 

IOW BB 4,pg. 36… 23 Sep 1730… John Dunn of Barte Precint in North carolina to Francis Axum (Exum?) of the upper parish of Isle of Wight… 200 acres in the upper parish (being a patent granted said Dunn on 21 Feb 1720) on both sides of the Great Reedy Branch of the Flatt swamp.

Wit: Thomas Murey and John davis.

John Dunn     Rec: 28 Sep 1730

 There are John Rogers in Surry that don’t fit into this picture… 

Bk 3 pg 59–7 Jul 1674–John Rodgers, being an old impotent man upon his petition is discharged from paying public levys

Did he die 1685?

and another…       I suspect one of these is the “Burgess” of 1645.

Wills & Administrations of Surry County, 1671-1750, Davis

John Rogers Est.- John Rivers, and Mary Rivers, admir. 4 May, 1697. Book 5, p. 138.

These abstracts are not giving enough information… does this mean that a John Rogers Jr. has died and his estate is attached or is it just a judgement against his property “his estate/plantation”?

Surry co., Va., Deeds & Wills 1671-1684, p. 352, June 9, 1684,

attachment against the estate of John Rogers, Jr.

————————-

I don’t think there is any doubt that the John Rogers who sold the property to Edward Grantham is the same as moved to Nansemond.  I have also suggested that I suspect he may have been an Indian Trader. (Part time perhaps… smiling).

Sept. Court 1694   Sheriff & Edward Grantham   Edward Grantham presented by Grand Jury for entertaining Indians contrary to law & not attending church…. Grantham to appear in next court to answer the same    Haun 1991:51        http://www.nps.gov/history/history/online_books/jame1/moretti-langholtz/chap10a.htm

===========================================================

A bit more info to help with the theorizing…

Wills…

1678 Richard Rogers  Leg.- To son John, a Neck of Land that runs to ye Crick of one side and the Old Field in ye other, guided with the Mill Path, also a heifer and a gun.  To son Richard, ye Neck of Land yt runs from the Cod of ye Swampe to Barker’s path and see to ye ould road, also a heifer and a gun.  To son William, ye Remainder of ye land that passes from ye oulde Rode to Barker’s cart path to the head of the Land, also a heifer.  To John and Richard beds, rugs eyc. To godson, Richard Hide a cow at seventeen years.  Sons not to lease or mortgage their land.  Daughter, Mary.  Bequest to wife, of the Plantation where I live, for her life. Wit: Abraham Heath, Thomas Milton.  Made: 27 March, 1678. Rob: 7 May, 1678. Book 2, p. 174.  (Wills and Admins of Surry Co., Davis)

John Rogers:  Est.- John Rivers and Mary Rivers, admr.  4 May, 1697.  Book 5, p.138.  (Davis)

William Rogers: Leg.- Mentions wife, and makes her Exerx. Mentions sister, Mary Rivers, Nephew Grace Rivers; Nephew Mary Rivers; Nephew John Rivers.Wit: Robert Nicholson, George Nicholson, Richard Fones. Prob: 2 Sept, 1701. Book 5, p. 226.   (Davis)

This Richard was a contemporary of the John Rogers who moved to Nansemond by 1681. Note the family Richard left in Surry County:

sons…  John, Richard, William… and very noticeable, daughter Mary.  Mary evidently married John Rivers and she ties in both of her brothers John and William. One dies 1697; the other 1701.  This now throws some light on all the tithables when you track Richard Hide.  It seems probable now that ALL of the Rogers after about 1681 in Surry County were descendants of the Richard Rogers family. 

I was suspicious of this record in 1678:

1678

Jno Rogers & Jno Rogers his son and Danll. his son, 3

William Rogers at ye widow Owen,1

=============

Rogers, Jno anys. Rich Rogers to be with Richard Hide, p. 10: 15 June 1678, Upon ye petition of Rich: Hide, it is Ordered that Jno: Rogers Orpt. of Rich: Rogers deced to remaine with the said Rich: Hide untill the next orphants Cort & that he have the sd. Orpht. Estate and give security for the same until ye sd next orphans Crt., where he the s. & his sd. Estate will either be continued or removed as the Cort. shall judge.  (source unknown… this is off the web)   … this answers a lot of questions…

Richard Hide is acting as guardian of the sons of Richard Rogers… remember he was the “godson” of Rogers… (interesting that Richard Hide is not yet 17 at this time)… nevertheless, Hide maintains John and Richard Rogers.  But what of son William?  William apparently (my conjecture) goes to “ye widow Owen”.  If that is the case, then all future references to the William Rogers with the Owen and Proctor clans can be associated with the Richard Rogers descendant.

This makes a case that the John Rogers who moves to Nansemond in 1681 came with ALL his family.

Written by anderson1951

June 1, 2013 at 1:30 pm

20 Responses

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  1. Maybe the judge got confused like me. John Rogers married to Hester who was actually an Esther ( not Easter..typo) Interesting that Dunn moved into John Rogers old Stomping grounds but John Rogers Sr. and Jr were long gone.
    —————–
    Side note check the 1722 sale and see if your wit: Robert Lawrence was actually RICHARD Lawrence.
    for sure John Due is misspelled. He is the atty. John Dew of Is of Wt AND the Meherren R regio
    ——————-
    OK here is my take on this. John Rogers 1st is dead since ca l685. JOhn Rogers the younger is married to Richard Booth’s sister. By 1722 John and his son John have moved from Nansemond Cabbin Sw. to the North side of the Meherrin. they finally sell their old property. Both of their wives are still alive. (Benjamin Ricks will) Briodgett and Mary. So the 1722 papers refer to John Rogers Sr. actually 2 generation and married to Richard Booth’s sister. and the John Rogers JR. on the document is married to Bridgett Cook.
    I will add this to the notes: John Rogers II w/ Mary dies in 1724 and his estate items are listed in the Bertie County abstracts by Ms. Bell…signed by J. Rogers Jr. Do you dispute this?
    ——-
    you say,” Did pop high-tail it across the Blackwater to Isle of Wight Corrowaugh area”.. I think possibly so, if he was not dead- where would he and Mary ye younger sleep? I cannot add my deposition on the John Youing testamony about Lynnhaven. I thought this was a nursing home name you made up.
    ————-

    (I dug up most of this stuff way back in the Memphis library in 1997 or so but it was too soon for me. I had to get the preliminary tree worked on to catch up.)
    You really know how to dig up my relatives painful past. Oh well you might as well finish it. RS

    Benjamin Rogers Smith

    June 1, 2013 at 4:31 pm

    • I suppose I should tone down the humor a bit… you know by now I’m a smart ass but it is meant in good fun… I can see how some folks could be offended. Point taken.
      Lynnhaven was another term for Isle of Wight/Nansemond area… I’ve come to think of it as the area on either side of the Nansemond River early 1600ish.

      I think these folks were salt of the earth types… for that reason I think the early guy from the 1638 reference (the Burgess) has nothing to do with your guys. The castletrash guys were powdered wig frilly shirt types. They were cutthroats and they used their literacy to their advantage. “Our” guys made up for it with that uniquely “American” attitude of “keep it up and we’ll whip your ass”… they showed it in 1676 in Bacon’s Rebellion. They showed it again in 1776.

      Are you still going to Richmond… if so that 1722 deed would be a good find… it is not in the Isle of Wight records on Familysearch.org?

      I’m thinking the sale of land to Edward Grantham is your guy and he is the one who died between 1700 and 1703 on Cabbin Swamp.

      anderson1951

      June 1, 2013 at 5:28 pm

  2. First, No irritation here. You are showing a whole new ballgame from what many others have. I respect the fact that you have no ax to grind. I made a typo a few paaragraphs ago( one cannot do that on a ” ye younger”
    quote.
    There are too many things here for me to comment on as a quick response. I need to regroup and RETHINK.
    My brain is has made up its mind and is resisting this. Still going to Richmond. At least you have spotted that these Rogers’ largest (documents) must be digested. I need to reread and make a list of things to comment on . RS

    Benjamin Rogers Smith

    June 2, 2013 at 6:36 am

  3. One important thing. I has been suggested, descided , whatever a long time ago that the Daniel Rogers reference on the 200 acres grant is actually Daniel Regan sp? you have him on your plotted map along the Cypress Creek but others have them adjoining. There was a Daniel Rogers (brother) that is a titheable Of John Rogers ut never heard from again. RS

    Benjamin Rogers Smith

    June 2, 2013 at 4:14 pm

    • Well, there was a Daniel Regan and he shows up in the tithables. However, if ever a name was spelled out clearly on a patent, it is that Daniel “Rogers”. He disappears… either he left or he died. John Rogers with his first son on the tithables shows up in 1674 (son turned 16 presumably). So there is no explanation for the Daniel reference on the patent (other than a guess).

      In 1678 (tiths) – Jno Rogers & Jno Rogers his son and Danll. his son, 3

      William Rogers at ye widow Owen,1

      I can’t see any logic here… but I can see where the guess came from if you consider a “naming pattern”… if this (freshly minted 16 year old Daniell) is named after a dead brother Daniel (of John Sr).

      There is also a Rich: Rogers in the 1668-1670 tiths… he disappears also… so there may be a connection with the Daniel.

      I will post my version of the tiths later… good stuff.

      anderson1951

      June 2, 2013 at 5:27 pm

      • The Daniel Regan thing has been around for a long time. Yes Daniel Rogers is clear. I did not get involved in that issue and thought perhaps it was one of those illegible names.

        This is another reason that when I wrote “the Northside of the Meherrin ” I kept to the main facts. That is the Flow of proof from Cypress Creek, Beaverdam Sw. Cabbin Sw area and “”Hills Ferry””” on the Meherrin
        The House of Burgesses, Bacons rebellion, Hester affair etc. I chose not to tell people all that I could stuff in that turkey………..fluff. Fined for not planting corn.. a distraction in some cases.

        Rogers

        Benjamin Rogers Smith

        June 3, 2013 at 6:16 am

  4. Went to0 the library this am. I have read so many abstracts that concern the land at the Hills Ferry location. l the first one being 2 Aug 1715 that lists T. Brown, John Dickinson John. applerite John rogers William Collins and Joseph Rawlinson.. Here is a new one for me.

    #1410 William Collings(Collins_) of Nansemond and his wife Mary to Mary Brasswell of Albemarle 21 Aug 1721 190 acres on the North Side of the Meherrin R. joining the River in possessin of Mary “and is all patent granted me” 10 Aug 1720 Wit Joseph Dardin, Matt Williams, John Molten, John Dew given power of Atty. by William and Mary Collins (Mary Brasswell is the W/ Willliam Brasswell) It seems all of these heap proof of the John Rogers being the same as in Nansemond (Cabbin Sw) and Is of Wt (Beaverdam Sw)

    Hog thieves.. In 1681-82 John Rogers Sr and Jr were sued at least 2 times for stealing hoggs . Remember John Rogers Sr was the recipient of pt of the estate of John Dixson in 1659… “all the hogs that ran through the woods” In due respect I guess a of these colonialists killed hoggs in the winter.

    Secondly in 1684 there were a few court actions against John Rogers Jr.
    finally on May 6 1684 Ed Bayly (atty) assignee of John Rogers Jr. pertaining to the judgment agst. John Rogers Jr. and fine pd to sherrif for 779 lbs for non-apopearance of John Rogers Jr. (reversed I guess) beause of the oath of Thomsa Jordan about Rogers Jr.) “for his going to the South”???
    again Baily was the family atty for the land sale to Grantham.

    These court actions appear to me to be “our” John Rogers”.. The dates baffle me.

    As you suggested a Burgess could get his white ruffles in a wad chasing these critters.

    ————————————–

    another thought …the name Richard Lawrence in Nansemond. It was perhaps his namesake that was in Bacons Rebellion . YOU should read his account.. I think he and Bacon and Berkeley may have gone to Oxford together.. Richard had to skip the country and save his hide.

    Rogers

    Benjamin Rogers Smith

    June 3, 2013 at 11:13 am

  5. We are a bit slower down here in MEM-phis. I DO like your auggestion about Gib Gibson and the rough rider traders connecting to William Howell via Edmond Howell . It’s probably going to be our (your) best and only shot at the Howell connection. I may ask you to do a separate piece on this for file. Thank you

    RS

    Benjamin Rogers Smith

    June 3, 2013 at 6:58 pm

  6. Ref: Titeables..Thanks for pareing this down:

    Notes William Howell listed yearly from about 1690-1701. Arthur Jordan in 1695 as is Wm. Howell

    Edmund HIowell 1668

    INTERESTEING: 1700 Thomas Bentley, Thomas Rogers, Tom a negro
    1701 Thomas Bentley, Thomas Rogers, Tom a negro
    (Th Rogers quit rent role 1704 50 ac.)
    (THo. Bentley name in the court affair of deathbed estate divie of John Dixon, Arth. Jordan, and John Rogers 1659.

    Pertaining tdo Thomas Rogers who died in 1713? Chowan Prec Wiccocon area, the titheable os the only other mention of that name that I have other than the Quit Rent. Smells good? lLow profile!

    Rog leaving 6-5 in the AM

    Benjamin Rogers Smith

    June 4, 2013 at 9:10 am

    • Everyone “assumes” that the William Rogers associated with Owen is a son of John Rogers… I’m not so sure because he is still in Surry by 1701 (perhaps longer) and note in the Godson patent with mention of John Rogers will that he bequeathed property to son William. So we may have 2 different Williams same year but different Counties. The one in Surry may be another son of Rich Rogers???

      This would be worth looking up at Richmand Archives… probably has the estate papers also…

      Surry County, Virginia Wills & Deeds: Will of Richard Rogers, dated 27 March 1678, proved 7 May 1678 a cow to godson Richard Hide at age 17

      anderson1951

      June 4, 2013 at 10:10 am

  7. The William Rogers of Surry titheables is the first son of John Rogers. This is a proven genealogical fact.
    “From Jamestown to Birmingham” by Maurice Rogers. He did no work on brother John. I met him a couple of years ago.

    In about 1998 I found the C & V Nugent abstracts of Nansemond. I’m very surprised because I seem to have collected this out of thin pure air. With all of my work the ultimate best question was where did these Rogers come from. I immediately hit a dead end. Because the apparent ages of the Rogers, , Joseph 1 Benjamin 1Robert 1, this held jinxedthe conclusion that they were sons of brother William. Worth Ray proposes that Robert was part of the burned out Is of Wt Nansmond record. Possibly related to Edward Rogers 1623? Warresqueek? ( I have traced Robert accross Nansmeond into Chowen Precinct Bertie and Edgecomb. Thiey had a lot of Isle of Wight friends, Thomas, Langston, Odam, Vann, etc.

    Now you have helped the effort emmensely. I have refined my question some. FIRST querrstion?
    Because John Sr and Jr are adjacent to Joseph and all are a part of the William Howell patent, who is Joseph Rogers.??? Obvioiusly he is a of Southwark/ B Lawnes Creek C. Is. of Wt.. I think B or C and now I am leaning toward Lawnes Creek. Next Querrstion Is he a brother or a cousin of Joseph.
    Joseph and Benjamin stayed awhile and formd a colony of Rogers in New Gates Co.NC.

    Is it possible that John Rogers had a wife and children before Mary?.

    RS

    Benjamin Rogers Smith

    June 14, 2013 at 5:25 am

    • I added some new info to the end of the main thread above concerning the sons of Richard Rogers…

      I have yet to see any ties to the Joseph Rogers of “Lawnes Creek” to your clan. He was a “tanner”, dealt with indians, employed an “old” shoemaker at one point… he quite possibly was not related???

      I suspect your guys simply made a clean break from Surry County in 1681 and moved the kit and kabuddle to Nansemond.
      —————–
      This guy is still a mystery…

      Bk 3 pg 59–7 Jul 1674–John Rodgers, being an old impotent man upon his petition is discharged from paying public levys

      Did you find anything at Richmond relating to a death about this time??? I’ve seen mentions of 1685 but have not found a record. This guy could be the missing link to whether or not Richard and John Rogers were brothers??? (and perhaps the short-term Daniel of the 1666 patent).

      anderson1951

      June 15, 2013 at 6:02 am

  8. I hurredly read though my notes last night: YOu have added a part that HELPS. John Rogers and Richard Hide are mentioned at least 2 maybe three times together in the titheables of Surry. Same household. My thought earlier this week was this is not mine.
    Richard Rogers had a John Rogers. My conclusion was: this is John Rogers who married Mary Rivers. Mary’s husband died… record says either 1695 / 1697. This helps in identifying at least one John that remains in Surry Southwarke after John I and II depart. I do not understand any court cases that linger after 1682

    The abt 1685 death was a calculated guess before me. Maybe in the good Dunston Family tree of the South.
    I only thought it was a reasonable guess.

    I thought that you had recommended that John Rogers (father in the Howell patent died sometime between 1686- 1703. Now 1700-03. As you say the more we push the deaqth date to 1702/3 the less plauseable he is the same fellow. You have picked the loophole that I was concerned about. I do like your unbiased approach. RS

    Benjamin Rogers Smith

    June 15, 2013 at 8:29 am

    • Well I think we can now chisel in stone that John Rogers died between 1700-1703. The Godwin patent is the necessary proof. Combined with the statement in the 1700 patent where John “Jr” obtained his land and it states “a line tree of William Howell patent now in the possession of his father John Rogers Senr”… so the old man was alive in 1700… dead by 1703.

      3 sons are proven by those deeds… John Jr, Thomas and William. A little more digging into the Surry County records may shed light on the goings on of the William… but I think it is likely he moved with his father to Nansemond in 1681 or so.

      If you back up to the Surry records and assume that your Rogers left about 1681 then make the case for all the Surry Rogers to be sons of Richard Rogers. Prove who your people are NOT.

      Since it is known now that he died 1700ish then I think it reasonable to estimate he was perhaps 60 and likely born around 1640ish… perhaps mid 1640s… his patent was 1666 so he was perhaps 20 yrs in 1666. This works well with the 1659 mention of the Dicson/Dixon bequest of items at Dicson’s death. It offers the possibility Rogers was working/living with “Capt” Jordan. (all of which were in the right area of Surry Co… Any mention of a “Rogers” headright for Jordan would clinch the deal) John Rogers shows up with his first son in 1674… so if the son just turned 16, that would put his birth at 1658. That would push John Rogers (the father) birth at about 1637. All of which puts the kibosh on the immigrant theory of the “Burgess”. Your guy came from “parts unknown”.

      Still thinking out loud…

      anderson1951

      June 15, 2013 at 10:06 am

  9. Need time to think this over still tired from the trip and I am busy. Not a time to quickly reply.

    RS

    Benjamin Rogers Smith

    June 15, 2013 at 4:40 pm

  10. I have sent a report to my Rogers researchers about my find in Northampton area central part of Meherrin Neck. This helps prove my old work that names Jonathan Rogers a part of the john roers dewscendancy.
    I had foudna Daniel Rogers in the abstracts about three times.

    I then list names of folks from Surry, particularly who were (or their kin) in the surry Titheables. Quite a list
    These abstracts are primarily about 1755-61.

    Richard, John, and Bartholomew,Figures,Judkins, Maget(Maggett) Baggett, Holt, Benn(Binn) Chs. Skinner, Battle (Bittle), MYRICK, NEWITT(1st name)Drew(last), Ruffin, Little, Washington, John Dew(Due)……amazing Al;so
    Gardner, HollimanHollyman………………..a lesser number from Is of wight Brown, Dardin, Vann, Thomas,
    Bryant?

    The Myricks were still there iin the C. War.

    Rogers

    Benjamin Rogers Smith

    June 21, 2013 at 8:07 pm

  11. I will say John Rogers, the one who appears to have been an orphan, was always in trouble per
    Surry Co, VA court records, like the worst offender in the county. I can’t recall exactly what for, but, he didn’t care much for authority. Also, Owen Myrick, the one who fought in Bacon’s Rebellion in Surry Co, VA and ransacked Francis Mason’s house during the Rebellion along with Thomas Gibson/Gibbons was another one, after Bacon’s Rebellion, who was in a bit of trouble. Probably, because the guys in authority were the ones who were ransacked by these rebels, like Myrick/Mirick, several name variants, and were gunning for these rebels for years after the Rebellion. I did notice that in the post 1677 court records, the rebels were constantly in court for some trouble or another. Thomas Gibson/Gibbons managed to stay out of trouble except when he was ordered by the court in 1681 to return Proctor’s cow. (It was practice, at least in old New England you kept the errant cow.) Oh, and he was taken into the sheriff’s custody in the mid 1680’s but I couldn’t decipher why, something about “seven.” Mirick, I think, was to, in an unrelated incident, after the Rebellion. Anyway, my family made up for lost bad behavior as time moved on, however.

    Also, Marc,maybe you have a comment on the following: I found loads of judgments (like lawsuits) filed by Thos. Gibbons/Gibson, the plaintiff, against big players, big planters, literate men, like William Edwards and Nicholas Meriwhether or it could have been Marriott. I counted something like 22 of them over a ten to fifteen year period filed by Thos. and he was awarded the judgments by the court in tobacco casks, of course, as that was the common currency. But, why did so many people owe him money, like the Swans, Edwards, etc.? What was Thos. doing, supplying them with some kind of good, or service, like tobacco casks, in large measure? Was he a miller? I am sure he was some kind of Indian translator and probably trader/planter. I know his son, Gibson Gibson, when he died, left his cooper’s tools and carpentry tools to Isaac Browne, his son in law, but Gibson (Gibey) Gibson was apprenticed/indentured at a young age by his mom Elizabeth Chavis (I am quite sure indeed the boy was illegitimate) to a Barber and a Mercer, surnames and later left with an Austin. I wonder if Thos. was supplying casks or gunsmithing services or such,but, a lot of wealthy people owed him money and maybe he ran a general store or simply was Indian trading with them and filed the judgments to be paid. Any ideas on why so many judgments? Joan Gibson

    Joan Gibson

    March 20, 2014 at 9:13 pm

    • I know the Joseph Rogers who lived closer to Lawnes Creek was a tanner and was noted for consorting with Indians (source for his hides obviously…makes business sense).

      I get the impression these guys would sue at the drop of a hat… it may have been sport for them. Ha! Perhaps it was a way to relieve the boredom and collect a debt at the same time (smiling).

      anderson1951

      March 21, 2014 at 3:08 am

  12. Rogers a tanner? Makes a lot of sense. I did see him, though, it may have been a John Rogers, (you know the clerks used abbreviations for first names, like Jno or Jo, so, Joseph? No, I think it was a John Rogers) that was associated with Thomas Gibson/Gibbons. Thos. I believe had several judgments against John/Joseph and it would appear possibly they did a lot of business together. Just speculating, but, the names are together in court documents in the 1680’s frequently enough. Surry County, VA Court Records, 1671-1691. Also, from what I recall this same Rogers guy may have been publicly whipped more than once. I just remember thinking, wow, this guy really took a lot of heat for something. Not too many people in Surry Co, Va court records were called up for bad behavior. There was the occasional drunk, the loud-mouthed woman, the adultery cases (when folks were caught), pretty run of the mill stuff, but, I haven’t looked at ALL of those court records as they are like 1000 pages but the index/table of contents put together by the DAR in the 1930’s as they photographed the original records for microfiche processing are pretty clear and pretty accurate and list what the record concerns, generally, God bless them. And, Timberlake Davis’ records’ transcription of Surry Co, VA cover just the wills, deeds from the 1630’s until I think the early 1680’s or so (not court records which are a separate book, separate microfiche reel) and she left out huge amounts of info, Marc. So, beware. Much of what she actually transcribed was in itself accurate and I was simultaneously viewing the actual records on microfiche while I used her book, infront of me, as a guide and I was shocked by lots of missing info on her part and concerned how many genealogists over the last 60 years have been led astray due to this. Who would ever know? Who is crazy enough to spend two winters sitting in the Bangor, Maine public library squinting through 17th century Surry Co,VA records on microfiche and I photocopied lots of those records, too, while there. We Gibsons got the short end of the stick in her book. Just one of several “I left out the Gibsons,” example was she left out George Gibson as George Burcher’s 1656 testee on Burcher’s land repatent and this is major info as it shows a longstanding relationship between the two men as probably neighbors and Burcher was an original colonist, but, Gibson apparently wasn’t and seems to have been born in the Colony around 1610 – no transport records on him and also the Jane Gibson, the Elder, Indian woman, who clearly seems to be his kid, largely mulatoo at the time of her birth in about 1640, makes it seem to me that George Gibson was half Indian and his wife may have been a full blooded one. And, since the black folk didn’t show up until 1619 in VA, Jane’s parents in all probability were not of African descent, but, of much Indian descent. So, how do you, as George Gibson, born about 1610, or as late as 1620 end up half Indian and half white with the last name of Gibson? And, to boot, the family is of Pamunkey descent and loaded with carpenters and coopers, and Indian traders and Indian fighters and planters and farmers. So, what fellow from England named Gibson was in the Jamestown area early enough, associated with the Pamunkeys, and around to father George Gibson of Charles City Co, VA and may have been a carpenter, cooper, or shipwright? There was only one. Thomas Gibson of the 1608 Second Supply to Jamestown. And, one of his shipmates was a John Collins. Is this the same John Collins we find with patented land in Surry Co, VA in the mid 1600’s? And, the Thomas Gibson of the 1608 Second Supply was a gentleman, as were just about the entire ship, per Smith’s writings, and Smith was just disgusted over it as he wanted hardened soldiers. But, Thomas was a soldier, a sailor, and an artisan, per Smith, and that is saying a great deal about Thomas. He may have been a guild member in England, and may have grown up in a port city, which wasn’t hard in England. And, he was a gentleman, so he came from some kind of prominent family. I have the one and only Gibson “prominent” family tracked back into England and have been trying to get Y-DNA samples on them for years (Goldingstone Gibsons), but, only with the caveat they can show family bloodline relationship to Lord Alexander Gibson’s sibling, Thomas Gibson whom I believe is the same fellow of the Second Supply. Somewhere there are parish records and family genealogies recorded from like 1550-1650, but the Brits charge for anything genealogical and rarely answer my emails. They hate US genealogists. I just don’t get it, at all. Joan

    Joan Gibson

    March 21, 2014 at 9:44 am


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