Andersons of Colonial N. Carolina

so I start this site in Virginia… go figure

John Gay and John Gay Jr wills…

with 19 comments

source: familysearch.org website, NC, Edgecombe Co., Wills


xxx

If you read this will carefully note this…  “being in health in body & in perfect Sound Science [sense] and memory”…  In other words, the man was not dying.  This is a preliminary will.  In this same year, 1759, this John Gay Jr. also witnessed the will of Moses Pitman along with Joseph Pitman (the Quaker), his brother in law.  Note also his signature “mark”… an “X”.  His father John Gay Sr. signed with a distinct mark… a capital I with a dash through the middle.  (Whenever you see that mark… the “I” with the center dash… it was common in the era… it was simply the “Latin” letter for “J”.. in this case John… its that simple).

Note also the date this will is recorded…  June 1761.   The court essentially probated these 2 wills in December Court 1761.

Edgecombe Co., NC, Court Minutes 1763-1774 Book II

GoldenWest Marketing Genealogy, Temple City, CA

[314]  Dec 1761  Book I

Ordred that the Sheriff sell the Perishable Estate of Jno. GAY Senr.

Ordred that the Perishable Est. of Jno. GAY junr. be sold acco. to Law.

[28]   Jul 1763  Book II

Ordred that Joseph PITMAN Exor. to the Estate of John GAY Junr? Deced. sell the Perishable  Part of the sd. Estate accordg. Law (sic) for the Benefit of the Devisee.

I am now convinced that John Gay Jr. was the brother in law of Joseph Pitman (the Quaker).  The Quaker records state her birth (Elizabeth) as 1724 and in the above will Gay leaves his estate “to his eldest sister’s son Thomas Pitman”   If you take that statement to mean his “older sister” then he was born “after” 1724…. which reasonably establishes his birthdate.  He apparently had no heirs other than his wife Sarah.

This will is the father John Gay Sr. it accounts for son William who appears to acquire adjoining property about 1760… this William will eventually sell the land to Elisha Battle in 1779.

Since he also mentions his son John, this will also establishes that he wrote this will just prior to son John’s death. 

In reading various wills of Edgecombe I have noticed several sons who die at about the same time as their fathers… namely: John Gay Sr & Jr,  Andrew Ross and his son… also Charles Coleman and his son…. all around 1760.  I wonder if there was some sort of plague such as smallpox at this time?

Note also that this Moses Pitman will below was written by the same scribe as the John Gay Jr. will…  both in the year 1759.  Perhaps John Gay Jr. got caught up in the moment?

Below is Moses Pitman, 1759

xxx

Edgecombe Co., NC, Court Minutes 1744-1762 Book I
GoldenWest Marketing Genealogy, Temple City, CA

Dec 1760
The last Will & Testament of Moses PITMAN Deced. was Exhibited by the Exrs. therein named
and at the same time Joseph PITMAN one of the People called Quakers affirmed that he saw the
sd. Moses PITMAN Execute the sd. Will & that he saw Jno. GAY & Jesse GREEN sign the same
as Evidence thereto & at the same Time the Exr. Qualified acco. to Law

—————-

Some notes on John Gay….

My guess is that John Gay Sr. of Edgecombe Co. is the grandson of the immigrant Henry Gay of IOW… likely a son of Henry II or his brother Thomas (I’m not sure if the first John Gay  left a will?).  If this Edgecombe John is indeed the son of the immigrant then he would be at least in his 80’s I’m guessing…

The John of Edgecombe (remember his son John was not born until about 1725 or so) obtained a grant for 400ac in 1744 and references can be found to his land on Southside Tar River in 1745.  He was simply too young to be a son of the immigrant in my opinion…   I just don’t see any logic to this man being born before 1688.  Most researchers estimate the son of the immigrant being born around 1660… hence I suppose this John of Edgecombe a grandson.  But don’t take my guess as gospel… this John Gay Sr was noted in the Rich Square MM Quaker records as an elder in 1760 and the Isle of Wight “immigrant” Henry Gay is closely associated with numerous Quakers.

 

On second thought and to argue with myself, a plausible case can be made that this IS the son of the immigrant Henry Gay (I say “immigrant” because he was listed as a headright).

According to Boddie, Robert Lawrence, Jr. was born in 1639 (from a 1708 deposition in which he gave his age as 69).  He had 400 acres in Isle of Wight and 400 in Nansemond in the Quit Rent rolls of 1704.  His will was probated in 1720 and “the page where it is recorded is badly torn”.  The only children that can be deciphered are, 1. Robert, 2. daughter married Henry Gay, 3. daughter married John Gay.  [Lawrence researchers further say: “son-in-law and executor John Gay to have a long table, great brass kettle, and great iron pot… witnesses were Ambrose (A) Sanders and Jane Gay” quoting Hugh B. Johnston]

This Robert Lawrence married the widow of Henry Gay in 1689.

John Gay was still living in IOW in 1720 presumably, since he acted as executor. 

When did wife of R Lawrence die?  She may have been relatively young when she had son John.

“Thomas Gay son of Isaac [sic] Lawrence & Rebecca Page the Daughter of Thomas Page both of the county of the He of weight did propound their marriage before a meeting of men & women freinds at our publick meeting house in Chuckatuck the 14 day of the 10 mo last past and coming before the meeting the second time they Published their marriage againe and at our above sd Publick meeting house were married this 11th day of the 11th mo In the year 1699″   Thomas Gay, Rebecca Page      What is this “son of Isaac” business… a transcribing error?

[witnesses:]

Thomas Page Senor

Isaac Rickesis Senor

Nathan Nuby

Robt Lawrence Junor 

Mark Alsbury

Henry Wilkinson

Wm Powell

Daniel Sanbourn

Alee Page

Joane Lawrence 

Jane Sikes

Elizabeth Powell

Sarah Sanbourn

source:  http://books.google.com/books/reader?id=4v4RAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&output=reader&pg=GBS.PA309

If this Thomas was about 20 yrs at marriage his birth would be about 1680.  Brother John would likely be in this ballpark year also… just no later than 1688, the death of his father.

In Isle of Wight Guardian Accounts 1740 – 1767, Hopkins…

(p.10) 1 Sep 1742…. Account of Estate of Joseph Bridger… list includes John Gay

“An” adult John Gay was in IOW in 1742 per above account… the Bridger estate was close to the original Henry Gay patent.  2 years later he perhaps moves to Edgecombe Co., NC. 

Minutes of the North Carolina Governor’s Council

North Carolina. Council

November 19, 1744 – November 27, 1744

Volume 04, Pages 703-710

Read the following Petitions for Warrants Vizt

William Carruthers 200 Beaufort, Edward Bryant 100 Craven, Do Do 50 Do, Isaac Henter 150 Bertie, Thomas Taylor 300 Pasquotank, John Halsey 400 Chowan, Peter Adams 500 Do, James Blount 300 Tyrrel, Francis McClendon 600 Craven, John Clark 640 Bladen, Do Do 200 Do, Do Do 300 Do, John Simpson 200 Onslow, John Edward 600 Bladen, William Jones 400 Edgecombe, William Chavers 400 Do, Walter Gibson 100 Do, William Jones 600 Do, John Gay 400 Do, Joseph Howell 300 Do, Thomas Gwaltney 400 Beaufort, David Bunn 100 Edgecombe, Walter Lane 400 Craven, William Herring 300 Edgecombe, Jacob Strickland 100 Do, William Douglass 300 Do, Henry Ivey 300 Do, Theophilus Pugh 2,000 Chowan, William Eves 200 Edgecombe, James Pace 450 Do, Joseph Lane 500 Do, James Ard 400 Craven, Thomas Howell 200 Do, Francis Jones 200 Edgecombe, Joseph Brantley 200 Do, John Lott 300 Do, Solomon Joyner 200 Do, John Hennard 150 Do, Peleg Rogers 400 Do, Thomas Bradley 600 Do, Richard Bayley 600 Do, David Kelley 400 Do, Francis Patterson 200 Do, William Bentley 100 Craven, Joseph Kimball 200 Edgecombe, Theophilus Goodwin 200 Do, Joseph Sims 150 Craven, Anthony Rackley 250 Edgecombe, Joseph Philips 250 Do, Thomas Ray 200 Do, Robert Humphrey 200 Craven, Wm & Robt Sutherland 300 Edgecombe, John Bishop 400 Do, Thomas Mason 400 Do, John Moore 200 Do, William Sims 300 Do, David Bales 300 Do, John Patterson 200 Do, William West 300 Do, Thomas Nellson 640 Carteret Granted

————–

A little candy for serious researchers… I think this mention of Henry Gay of Isle of Wight (Nansemond in this reference) is from 1678…

here is where you can find the source…

memory.loc.gov/ammem/collections/jefferson_papers/mtjser8.html     … see Manuscrpt Volume 19. Virginia. Foreign Business and Inquisitions. 1665-76…. somewhat of an index can be found at image number 460).

See an early post of mine here for some background…     https://andersonnc.wordpress.com/page/9/     see the “IOW and Nansemond Patent Map” post (updated in my IOW Map Page)

Some where in my posts I think I transcribed one of these “escheat” hearings…

Written by anderson1951

February 16, 2012 at 9:11 am

19 Responses

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  1. There were 3 John I. Gay’s. One died 1761’s (your will above) One died 1783. One died abt. 1807 in Edgecombe Co NC and had a daughter Winnifred married to John Corbitt SR. So is John Gay married to Sary, the same John Gay the son of Henry Gay of IOW that married Sarah Lawrence and was a Quaker and moved to NC with his brother Henry Gay and step brother Robert Lawrence JR. and Joseph Pittman the Quaker?
    If so…..did “that” John Gay the Quaker married to Sary (possibly Lawrence) have children? If he did why are they not named in his will? Now….there was also a John Gay married to Jamima England in Col Bertie County, with a son named John and a son named Arthur Parks Gay and a son named Edmund Gay these sons were born before 1710. This John Gay m: Jemima England in Philadelphia PA. at the Quaker Meeting house there, and looks like migrated to NC probably through Augusta Co VA to the Col. Bertie county area. So we have these 2 John Gay’s in the area to deal with. Then there is the Thomas Gay I son of Henry Gay I of IOW. Thomas was a Quaker and appears to have moved to Henrico Co VA a Quaker haven as he has sons born there. He has a son John and Jonathan and Thomas and Emund and Charles and William and other children, and some of this Thomas Gay I sons moved to Southampton Co VA and into Northampton Co NC…..
    So……who is this John Gay with the Pittman’s….and who are the 3 John I Gay’s!! The Thomas Gay with son Charles of IOW to Henrico line are heavily tied to the Sikes in Northampton Co NC and we know these folks moved to Edgecombe Co NC also!
    Who is the John Gay with Patent 1723 on the W. Side of the Chowan River that later moved to the North Side of the Chowan River?? Did he stay there? Is he the JOhn Gay the Quaker that moved to NC with brother Henry and step brother Robert Lawrence JR…..did this John stay on the no. sd. of the Chowan
    River when it became Chowan County? Did he die there? Or did he move to Edgecombe Co NC?

    Cheryl Horne

    April 12, 2012 at 12:52 pm

    • So I see you have a few questions… I just figured out this Joseph Pitman after 12 years so let’s get started on your John Gay shall we? Just kidding! Start with your other suspects and figure out who it CAN’T be. I think a couple Gay’s are on my Isle of Wight map … trace their ages and weed out the olde pharts. The 2 Johns (Sr & Jr) in Edgecombe die around 1760 so they would probably be born around 1690s/1700. I’ll see what I can filter out for clues….

      Marc

      Have you searched here for any clues?
      http://docsouth.unc.edu/csr/master_index.html

      Check here for any land grants around Kirby’s Creek… even tho’ this is VA some may pop up in the NC area…

      http://lva1.hosted.exlibrisgroup.com/F/HHLINX75ESAECNIVHVMT44H1C4IV8AQVCDX539Y7FC5CUFC7P8-42351?func=file&file_name=find-m-lva01
      ———-
      I added a few thoughts to the main page if anyone wants to discuss… I’m not a Gay researcher per se… (no pun intended 🙂

      anderson1951

      April 12, 2012 at 1:13 pm

      • Marc
        Is there a way to print out one of your maps? I was interested in doing that with the map showing Henry Gay’s land?
        Your site is absolutely fabulous! So much to learn here.

        cheryl

        ……….
        Thanks… the maps are huge filesizes and can’t be printed easily… you might try zooming to a size you like and do a “screenshot” and print that.

        Cheryl Horne

        May 1, 2012 at 4:39 pm

  2. Sorry hit the enter key!
    John ( I ) GAY Will 17 May 1783 Northampton Co NC m: Prudence…..has a daughter Martha married to a
    Reynolds, and dau. Mary m: Sikes; and grandchildren GAY.
    I wondered if this John (I) Gay could be the son of the John (I) Gay d: betw: March 21, 1761-Dec Court 1761 and maybe he named a daughter Martha after his mother?
    I am most interested in the significance of these “marks” that look like a capital I with a horizontal line thru the center? Is this an English mark? I have seen others with different surnames use this same mark?
    I have indeed been weeding out the John’s, but the problem is….there were several that lived very very close to one another, and born close together in years and have the same names! As far as Kerby’s Creek goes, there are more than one line of GAY’s living there! AND to complicate matters, there are men with land there, who live in Southampton Co VA and are from PA. to Augusta Co VA! There is also the land locations that are most confusing to me at times! I have recently discovered that there is Buckhorn Swamp NORTH of the Meherrin River but South of the Anglican Swamp in Southampton Co VA., and of course that lower southern part of Southampton Co VA was at one time part of Col. Bertie / Northampton Co NC!
    And then BUCK SWAMP which was south of the Tar River and near Rocky MT in the western portion of Edgecombe Co NC…….my question is this? the son of Henry Gay II…..JOhn Gay b: abt. 1682 IOW/Nansemond… the Quaker that moved to NC with his brother Henry Gay III b: abt. 1684
    He and Henry both got Patents on Kerby’s Creek abt. 1723……JOhn moved to the other side of the Chowan River……
    did he die there? OR did he move to Edgecombe County? WAS HE JOHN I GAY married to Martha?
    OR did he die in Chowan Precinct of Nansemond Co VA and never moved to Edgecomb County? Where is the paper trail from Chowan to Edgecombe?

    Cheryl Horne

    April 29, 2012 at 5:13 pm

  3. Hi again Marc
    another question I have tried to solve with no luck YET…. is the ship passenger listing for Henry GAY to VA. aboard the “Safety”…….i have found a William GAY aboard the Safety at a later date. The Safety made many trips carrying passengers. I think it important to find the actual passenger list for Henry Gay naming the Ship and the Ships Captain, port of departure and entry……to compare with the Henry Gay “headright” by James LONG ref: in Nansemond Co VA.. That record does indeed say Hen Gay headright. It does not state the ship name etc. and because there was such a great deal of corruption regarding headrights at that time I find it curious that only 3 yrs after Henry Gay supposedly came in as an indentured servant to James Long, (usually took 5 – 6 yr to work off an indenture), we see Henry Gay bringing in 8 immigrants to Col. VA. himself and then obtaining 400 acres of land. So was Henry Gay already HERE…..or did he actually come into the colonies on the date of that headright? I have found Joane Sanders 1664 VA Immigration Record, and supposedly Henry Gay and Joane Sanders came into VA the same year and married shortly after??? If of course it is the same Joane Sanders?

    CHERYL

    Cheryl Horne

    April 29, 2012 at 5:29 pm

  4. There is also another John Gay that could be complicating matters. He was the son of Henry Gay and Mary. I am calling this Henry Gay III the son of Henry Gay II who d: 1735/36 IOW. Henry Gay III died Feb 1736/37 in Col. Bertie Precinct and left orphan children, 2 of which were sons John and Thomas Gay, b: 1717-1736. We have the copy of his estate records. I believe this Henry Gay III is the brother to John Gay the Quaker and the step brother of Robert Lawrence JR. who, with JOseph Pittman the Quaker moved from IOW area to Col. Bertie abt. 1723.

    Cheryl

    Cheryl Horne

    April 30, 2012 at 6:12 pm

  5. Thanks Marc as we had looked for the 1745 Patent also. I saw your mention of the older Thomas Pittman married to an Elizabeth. Might they be the parents of the nephew Thomas Pittman that John Gay / Sary left inheritance to? I interpret the wording to mean that John Gay had several sisters and Elizabeth was the oldest of his sisters. I believe but can not prove it, that this John Gay / Sary is the older JOhn the Quaker and brother to Henry Gay III both of IOW and born in the 1680’s. I do not think JOhn I Gay / Martha was as old as some think, even though he had grandchildren.
    HAVE YOU HAD ANY LUCK LEARNING THE MEANING OF THESE MARKS OF ” I ” WITH THE LINE THROUGH THE MIDDLE??
    Cheryl

    Cheryl Horne

    May 2, 2012 at 9:06 am

    • I think the Thomas Pitman mentioned in the 1761 will is the son of Joseph the Quaker… see my current post. I don’t know of any special significance to a signature mark… I note that James Anderson of about 1722 had a similar mark and I think I have seen others… it apparently was fairly common.

      anderson1951

      May 2, 2012 at 10:23 am

  6. Could your John Gay also be called John Gray? I have been looking for John or Charles Gray in Edgecombe County, NC.

    Darlene

    May 4, 2012 at 4:16 pm

    • I’ll work up a post with some notes I have on Gray… see my main page…

      Marc

      anderson1951

      May 4, 2012 at 6:47 pm

  7. PROOF of who John Gay JR. is of the NHCNC JR & SR. transactions:
    John JR. is in fact John I Gay d: 1783 Will NHCNC widow Prudence.
    he named in his will grd son John Reynolds and grd son Solomon Gay.

    In Historical Southern Families Vol II page 209 (found on ancestry.com)
    is the proof: “the record of the grandson John Reynolds is proven by a deed he made as follows
    (Book 10, pg 57) “This indenture made the 31st day of Aug. 1793, between John Reynolds of NASH and state of N.C. of the one part and Soloman Gay of the County of Northampton of the second part….JOhn Sells unto him the said Solman Gay and his heirs forever, one certain parcel or dividend of land being in the County of NOrthampton containing 150 acres more or less it being part of a patent to my grandfather Gay bearing date 12 Nov 1755 and given to me by my grandfather in his
    last will and Testiment, bounded as follows: etc…..”

    Cheryl HORNE

    December 3, 2012 at 1:50 pm

    • Another piece of the puzzle… thanks.
      side note… from older comment … the capital I with the dash thru it is Latin for “J” (per David Gammon)… it is fairly common for the colonial era.

      anderson1951

      December 3, 2012 at 2:31 pm

  8. I found this on familysearch.org
    I believe it shows that John (x) Gay widow Sary he died 1761 Edge. Co. Joseph Pitman Extr., was the son of John I. Gay widow Martha he too died 1761 Edge. Co. NC. Michaell Horn a witness to his will.

    North Carolina Estate Files, 1663-1979
    John Gay Probate 1763, GS File # 002069991 Digital Folder # 005241163
    5 Images.

    …….to the Sherriff of Edgecombe County we command you to take the body of Elias Horn……..found in your Bailiwic and him safely keep so that you have him before the Justices of Inferior Court of Pleas and Quarter Sessions at the next court house of TYNACOCA……..on the fourth Tuesday in October next……unto Joseph Pitman Extr. of the LWT of John Gay dec’d…….

    on pg 4 of 5:
    “Know all ye men by these present that We Elias Horne and Michall Horn both of the County of Edgecombe and held firmly bound unto Samuel Ruffin Sheriff of Edgecombe County in the just sum of forty pounds proclamation money…….dated 10 Sept 1763. Witnessed by: Thos. DIXON
    signed by Elias E his mark Horn and Michall Horn.

    http://www.genealogybuff.com
    “Early North Carolina Marriages”\
    Edgecombe co NC
    Elias Horn to Sarah Gay on 26 Jan 1763.

    I “think” but can not recall for sure from my research, that Michaell Horn was the father of Elias Horn.
    MICHAELL HORN witnessed the Will of John I Gay widow Martha.
    On 6 Sept 1760 John Gay and James Ross are listed at Rich Square M.M. as the first 2 Elders, and
    2 May 1761 Joseph Pitman and Henry Horn are listed as the next 2 Elders of the Meeting House.
    I do not know the relationship of Henry Horn from 2 May 1761 Rich Square Meeting House M.M. “to” Michall and Elias Horn ?

    Just my opinion as of today, but I think John I. Gay m: to Martha was the son of Henry Gay II of IOW. d: 1735/36. The infamous John the Quaker!

    Cheryl

    Cheryl Horne

    August 28, 2013 at 12:56 pm

  9. I am the descendant of Joseph Pitman “The Quaker” who married Elizabeth Gay. I recently found your article concerning them thank you, soo much help. I already had research on the Gay brothers that descended from the gentry in England, but now I cant attach Eiizabeth Gay Pitman to them because of all the confusion over John Gay Sr and Jr. and how they attach to the Gay tree. Ahh the intrigue, But you have answered so many of my questions. Thank You

    Sissy

    Lesia Evans

    February 18, 2014 at 6:34 pm

    • Well thanks for your comment… after all is said and done I think it was a simple mistake by a court scribe that has caused so much confusion in unraveling the mystery of this guy (Joseph Pitman). I realize it is confusing to sort out my notes but once you see how the actual facts iron out I think it becomes easy to understand. I hope it helps with your family history.

      Marc

      anderson1951

      February 18, 2014 at 7:06 pm

  10. The Gay family is also still living near Louisburg & Franklinton,NC. My father’s brother owns a veneer mill there and I believe the folks that run a BBQ near a Wal-Mart are related to the Gay families.

    My Gay line is in Edgecombe Co, NC.

    I have a huge tree on ancestry.com: Alycia D. Morgan’s – Family Tree

    My 3rd Great Grandmother was Easter Gay married to Joshua Lawrence Boon or Boone. —
    Marriage Bond Date 23 Oct 1837 – Name listed as Easter Gay – County Court Records – FHL # 0296815-0296817 **Bondsman: Bennet Braswell — Witness: Jo Bell —

    Her info: Birth 14 Aug 1817 in Edgecombe, Edgecombe, North Carolina, United States, Death 9 Jun 1905 in Edgecombe, Edgecombe, North Carolina, United States.

    People on Ancestry show her father to be a John Gay. I need help with that line.

    E-mail me: Ye_Olde_Folk@yahoo.com

  11. There are Anderson and Pitman records of interest to you at branlongbaks(dot)com in papers A, B and L.

    Do you have the 1728 Carolus Anderson/William Kinchen/Thomas Pitman survey record? It is online.

    To let others know where to find original wills at no cost:

    Jofeph Pitman witnessed the will of William (his mark) Anderson
    FamilySearch > collections > North Carolina > probate > Edgecombe
    (image 39 of 271) Edgecombe Wills, 1758-1830, Vol. 01

    Jofeph Pitman witnessed the will of Jesse Baker 1787
    (image 78 of 271) Edgecombe (ditto)

    will of John Gay (Jr) 1759, Jun 1761
    (image 255 of 276) Edgecombe Wills, 1758-1830, Vol. 04

    will of John Gay (Sr) 1 Mar 1761
    (image 258 of 276) ditto
    John Gay (Jr) was alive on 1 Mar 1761, died in/by Jun 1761

    will of Joseph (J-mark) Pittman
    (image 28 of 291) Edgecombe Wills, 1758-1830, Vol. 08

    Wm (his mark) Anderfon witnessed the will of Andrew Ross 1761
    (image 188-190 of 291) Edgecombe Wills, 1758-1830, Vol. 08

    will of Daniel Ross (image 194 of 291) ditto

    BranLongBaks

    October 22, 2016 at 7:26 am

    • I am familiar with the 1728 survey record… thanks

      Do you have proof that James Pitman married Elizabeth Anderson 1732?

      I just visited your site… I will explore more…

      thanks for stopping by…
      Marc Anderson

      anderson1951

      October 22, 2016 at 7:42 am


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