Andersons of Colonial N. Carolina

so I start this site in Virginia… go figure

Chipping away at the Gideon Gibson brick wall…

with 31 comments

I’ve become wary of “coincidences”. I’ve found two people living beside each other of the same last name who are of completely different families- unrelated… it happens.  But when a LOT of coincidences take place, I pay attention… such is this case.  Genealogy buffs carry a ton of useless information in their head… its a product of the pastime.   Names of obscure folks will settle in to some crevice of the gray matter and just sit there until suddenly a RED FLAG will pop up and out comes names of long dead folks demanding to be reckoned with.  So I’m pondering who the wife might be of one Thomas Browne of Nansemond; other researchers have suggested her maiden name was Maule but I just get irritated at the suggestion… it just can’t be… I’ve totally debunked the idea (in my mind at least).  My hunch was that she may have been a HOWELL.  So I check my Surry/IOW map and sure enough there is a close neighbor Howell… almost next door. Since I am a grandfather, I know how that romancin’ stuff works… a sultry little smile and BAM! kids all over the place.

A liitle digging into this Howell character and up pops a GIBSON… my RED FLAG pops up.  The brother of this Thomas Brown had a daughter that married the notorious Gideon Gibson and they hightailed it to South Carolina and started the Gideon clan.  Is this all a coincidence?

I think Thomas Brown married the daughter of William Howell, only son of Edmond Howell of Surry County whose godson just happened to be a Gibson.  Not much information to go on… I don’t think this William Howell has been dissected from the other Howells of Nansemond before now.  There is also a Henry Baker who may have came from Surry to Nansemond.

Oh, and Thomas and Christian Brown named a son Howell.  Brown’s children were all underage at his death in 1718 so I suspect he married around 1700 which, coincidentally, is when he obtained his patent near William Howell.

https://andersonnc.wordpress.com/john-browne-of-kingsale-1639-1713-indian-trader/

gibson

map of Howell and Shivers property in Nansemond

Shiver2_map

This is merely a hunch but I wouldn’t be surprised if Gideon Gibson is “somehow” connected to these folks… before he moved to Occoneehee Neck at the Roanoke River… and then on to South Carolina.

28 March 1672 Elizabeth Chavis made petition to the General Court of Virginia to release her son, Gibson Gibson, who had               been unlawfully bound by Berr. Mercer to Thomas Barber who  had gone to England leaving the boy with Samuel Austin   [McIlwaine, Minutes of the Council, 302-3  [Elizabeth Chavis, dau of Thomas Chavis/Shavers etc., bound apprentice  to Robert Cartwright on 13 April 1664-See Chavis Notes Below]

http://www.historical-melungeons.com/gibsontl.html

1676 List of the Names and some of the Residences of the Rebel Participants in Bacon’s Rebellion of 1676 in Colonial Virginia
Baker, Henry – Surry – Southwark Parish – owned 350 acreees in 1684 – wife and ten kids in 1697 – owned 350 acre in Essex and 375 acres in Nansemond in 1704
Howell, Edmund – Surry – Southwark Parish
Gibson  Thomas – Surry – Southwark Parish

23 Dec. 1679 -Edmund Howell:
To my only son, William Howell my whole estate with some exceptions. to my godson Gibson, son of Thomas Gibson To godson Henry Baker. Makes George Foster Exec. and gives him the care of son until he is 21 years old, If son die, his inheritance to Henry Baker, George Foster Thomas Ironmonger his children.
Wit: Thos Pittan, Sr., John Moring.
Prob. 9 Oct. 1679.(2:240)

My theory is that a common link to connect these folks may be the Indian Trade. I am almost certain Gideon Gibson was a trader at Occoneechee Neck and that likely was his motivation to move to South Carolina (Note the Gibsons at Saxe Gotha…a John Gibson and G. Gibson can be seen in the lower left).

_saxe gotha map_james

17 Sep 1739, Edgecombe Co, NC – Philip RAIFORD (II) & Martha RAIFORD to William KINCHEN, Jr., 425a—SS Morratuck—part of a patent to Raiford 10 Aug 1720…..Wit: Thomas HOWELL, Philip RAIFORD (III), Jr. (Source: Abstracts of Deeds – Edgecombe Precinct, Edgecombe Co., NC, 1732-1758; Margaret Hofmann)
Philip and his wife Martha migrated to the fork of Congaree and Wateree Rivers and settled on the creek named for them, “Raiford Creek”, now Mill Creek. They were among the very first settlers in Richland County. Philip II came soon after his father’s death in North Carolina and on January 6, 1740 Certified 450 acres on Mill Creek below Bluff Road.

I do not know if these Howells are even connected to the Nansemond Howell…?

23 Feb 1747/48, Craven Co, SC Bk R-R, pg 535. PHILIP RAIFORD (II) Sr., planter, of Craven Co., to his beloved son, WILLIAM HOWELL, 50a. Wit: Even Rees, John Myrick, John Handysid. (My note, by Bill Miller of Bay Minette, Alabama: This Deed of Gift shows that William Howell married a daughter of Philip Raiford…Martha) (Source: South Carolina Deed Abstracts 1719-1772, Vol III (SC 929.3757), by Langley)

================

More puzzle pieces…  I’ve shown the Thomas Shivers above (there before 1717 as he is noted in two adjoining deeds)…  but also in 1725 a William Shivers is shown deeding his son Thomas property near “South Key”…

The Statutes at Large: Being a Collection of All the Laws of Virginia, from …

By Virginia, William Waller Hening

1725

William Shivers, by deed of gift, recorded in Nansemond county court, gave to his son Thomas Shivers. a parecl of land. lying at a place commonly called South ‘ Key. in the county of Nansemond aforesaid; being the land whereon the said Shivers now lives.

So… is this Joseph Shivers in 1780 related?

1780 Joseph Shivers and Mary, Administrators of Thomas Howell, Suit brought by Thomas Johnson and Sally his wife. order book 5 page 81-1780 1782 Virginia Census, Isle of Wight, County, Va. Joseph Shivers Whites 2, Blacks 1 1776 Virginia Genealogical Society Quarterly; Vol XXVI, number 4 (01 Nov 1988); Isle of Wight Orphans and Other Children. 7 March 1776 Joseph, Peter, Mourning Shivers, orphans of Jonas, are to be bound out. p. 349 1779 Witmess to deed between Tom Dixon and William Shivers Aug 5 1779, Isle of Wight, Va. 1790 Virginia Census, Isle of Wight county, Va. Joseph Shivers 2 in family 1798 Lease Cat-Pond from Willis Wilkinson of Nansemond County, Va.

Blanche A. Chapman – 1933 – Reference

W. B. 5, p. 141. SHIVERS, JOSEPH and MRS. MARY HOWELL, relict of Thomas Howell. 1782.

Is there a Howell / Shivers connection from Surry County?

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Written by anderson1951

May 30, 2013 at 10:20 am

Posted in Uncategorized

31 Responses

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  1. Hello there, this is a really impressive blog and I am glad I found it. I am also related to a lot of these people, including William Howell. I would really like a better look of the map of properties you posted. https://andersonnc.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/shiver2_map1.jpg (this one). The area I need to see is to the southeast and farther south … near Drum Hill … it looks as if you cut this image from a larger JPG. Please let me know if you could send it to me. My address is justin.petrone@gmail.com, my own blog is rootdownandgetit.wordpress.com

    Justin Petrone

    June 25, 2013 at 2:47 pm

    • Hi Justin
      The map is under “Pages” …upper right of blog page… “some Surry/IOW patents”.

      Just right click on the image and save it to your hard drive…it is rather large… probably over 50MB.
      I do not go much below the VA border because I don’t have a source for any NC patents. Those that I do show were all Virginia patents prior to the 1728 border survey.

      I don’t know of anyone else speculating the Wm Howell I mention may be the one from Surry County… so I am adding something new or completely off base.
      Let me know if you can’t click and save and I will email the map… there is another “IOW map” but the one I noted is the one I am continuing to update.
      Marc

      anderson1951

      June 25, 2013 at 3:32 pm

    • juanagibson@juno.com. Feel free to email me directly, if you wish. Very helpful info you have provided. I am quite clear I am a descendant of Thomas Gibson and his son Gibson Gibson, both mentioned in Edmond Howell’s 1679 Surry Co., Va will (I have a photocopy of the original will, off of microfiche). Gibson Gibson’s mom was Elizabeth Chivers/Shivers/Chavers/Chavis, a white Dubliner emigrant. I believe Edmund and Thomas were some how related as that is usually the case when one is a godfather (Edmund) to a godson (Gibson). Also, Pouncey Anderson/Anderson Pouncey is a witness or such on Gibey Gibson’s 1727 Charles city Co, VA will (Charles City Co. and Surry Co., VA are contiguous on the south of the James River). I am QUITE sure Gibey (who is my documented without question 9th grandfather) is in fact GIBSON GIBSON as the Chavis family connections follow GIBSON GIBSON AND GIBEY GIBSON’S LINE for at least a hundred years. Gibey and Gideon Gibson are related as the DNA testing has proven this. Both of these men were Indian/white mixes and later descendants had African blood in them as well.
      Some of us were mostly white, or mostly Indian, and later, some of us were mostly African and enslaved. There are docuemented public records on all that I state.
      Also, it appears that Thomas Gibson, pal of Edmund,may be the grandson of Thomas gibson of the second supply

      Joan Gibson

      July 3, 2013 at 9:21 am

      • Hi Joan
        My purpose of the post was to highlight this William Howell of Nansemond… I can’t find anything to tie him to Surry Co but it could be a missing piece of the puzzle. Gibson may have come to Occoneechi directly from say, Prince George. But then again he may have been around this area of Nansemond/Chowan.
        I may get back to you about that will… thanks
        Marc

        anderson1951

        July 3, 2013 at 11:00 am

      • My William Howell was actually born in 1835 in Holy Neck, Nansemond County. His father was Richard Howell, born about 1795/1800. No idea who Richard’s father was, it might have been another William Howell, born about 1765. We all know where this road leads back to, though.

        justinpetrone

        July 3, 2013 at 1:06 pm

      • Any chance you could send me a copy of the will and the public records on their race would be great. Thanks!

        Kristine Schaufler

        April 24, 2016 at 10:22 am

      • Edmond Howell’s 1679 (May or March??) will is in extant Surry Co, VA public records. He mentions all of his neighbors there in Sunken Marsh and some nearby in Lawn’s Creek. Thomas Gibson is mentioned and his son Gibson. Gibson was Edmond’s god child so I seriously wonder if he were in fact a relative not blood related (HOwell was white and literate and I believe directly from England and he was on many Surry Co, VA juries, well respected). Edmond had one heir a boy named William Howell. Edmond was widowed, apparently. The Howells were later known as mixed Indian families settling in NC with my Gibsons. I imagine they descended from William Howell as there was a huge migration of mixed Indian people, apparently, traders, out of Surry Co, VA to NC in the late 1600’s, the William Chivers/Shivers/Chavis family being one, my uncle. I have a copy of Howell’s will, the original untranscribed page, from off the microfiche of those county records. It and several hundred other pages, photocopies, are in a closet in my home 2000 miles away at the moment. So, if you remind me in early September, I will do my best to find it. Meantime, David Grabarek at the Library of VA in Richmond, through his interlibrary loan program, can snail mail you the micofilm reels for you to look at in your public library. There is no charge, but, I always make a donation to cover minimally the shipping and insurance to the LVA and to the library receiving and therefore returning the microfilm. It’s worth the pain. Surry Co, VA records, from what I understand are the oldest and most extant records in teh US, at least in the South. They were not destroyed by the damned Yankees who felt they had to wipe out our heritage in addition to breaking the South. Jamestown records were largely destroyed, but, Surry Co, VA was formed out of James City Co in 1652 and there are a few James City county records in there from the 1640’s. Also a Francis Gibson (MISTRANSCRIBED AS FRANCIS GILOWE BY ELIZA TIMBERLAKE DAVIS) is found in 1652 or 1656 with John White, Francis Mayo (White was an original early Jamestown settler and burgess to Jamestown in the 1640’s) and I forget the third guy, all confirming receipt of the signed land sale, from England, to William Batt, of Captain William Powell’s land in Surry Co, VA. Ann Parker was Powell’s granddaughter and sold the land to Batt. She lived in England. Francis I am sure is the same Francis Gibson, boy servant, living with Capt. Raphe Hamor (who founded Jamestown with Rolfe, Smith, etc.) in the 1624 Jamestown census and I think the kid may have been a cooper in training as Hamor’s home on the James had a loading dock for casks or hogshead of tobacco he shipped to England. I could go on and on about this and many other early connections with the Uties, Booths, Clements and Hamors. There is a FRancis Gibson buried next to my gramp Gibson Gibson (died in 1727) at Sandy Point, VA, close to Jamestown, who had been in what was an unmarked grave, apparently (it’s unmarked now as the headstone is buried somewhere, probably nearby, in a horizontal position). We have a fair amount of Francis’ and Frances’ in the family. Re Indian/white status of my Gibsons. See Jane Gibson the Elder, Indian Woman (look on my FB page). The Evans/Gibson Family Slave Petition, circa 1790”s/1800’s trace their lineage to her, born in the 1640’s in Charles City Co, VA. I am quite sure she was the sister to my grandfather Thomas Gibson/Gibbons of Surry Co, VA and daughter of George and Mary Gibson of Charles City Co, VA. George did not believe in the Christian Resurrection which was the same moral standpoint of the tribes at that time. Also Gibson Gibson, Thomas’ son and m y gramp, was illegally indentured and able to be released from it because the laws in the early 1670’s, per tribal treaties, did not allow Indian children to be enslaved or illegally indentured. Also, my family has claimed Indian descent forever, though, my recent generations were silent on this until my gramp told me in 1990. My father didn’t even know about that. Also, we look like many VA tribal members, even today. It makes me laugh. Four hundred years of colonialism and we still look Indian. I am glad for it.

        juanagibson@juno.com

        April 27, 2016 at 8:07 pm

  2. Just from web searches, I think some Howells of Nansemond can be (kind of) pieced together… What interests me with the guy on my map is that he doesn’t fit that mold… he first patents in 1685, acquires a bit more…sells some, moves a half mile…. then another (in between the same properties) in 1745. This is telling me it is either the same guy or a son of the same name. For that reason he may be a lone wolf not connected with any other Howells in the general area. That’s my working hunch anyway. You can’t get that view without a map.

    A similar idea with the Thomas Shivers….1717 to 1764.

    These two guys seem to stay put.
    ————–
    I’m glad to see Joan Gibson (above comment) stop by my little blog. When you get a “direct” descendant on the trail you best step aside because they will wear the bark off trees following a lead. Smiling….

    anderson1951

    July 3, 2013 at 1:29 pm

    • Marc, just an observation re the names Myrick and Handysid, below:

      “23 Feb 1747/48, Craven Co, SC Bk R-R, pg 535. PHILIP RAIFORD (II) Sr., planter, of Craven Co., to his beloved son, WILLIAM HOWELL, 50a. Wit: Even Rees, John Myrick, John Handysid. (My note, by Bill Miller of Bay Minette, Alabama: This Deed of Gift shows that William Howell married a daughter of Philip Raiford…Martha) (Source: South Carolina Deed Abstracts 1719-1772, Vol III (SC 929.3757), by Langley)”

      Owen Myrick fought with Thomas Gibson/Gibbons in Bacon’s Rebellion of 1676. They ransacked Francis Mason’s house as related through depositions given by them to the Crown shortly after the Rebellion. Edmond Howell, of course, was a rebel, as well and neighbor of Thomas Gibson, my grandfather, and godfather to Gibson Gibson, Thomas’ son. I believe the name Handysid is in fact Hansford, a big prominent Surry Co, VA name in the mid 1600’s, as in William Hansford who was literate and some kind of magistrate. This is all in Surry Co, VA records and documented. The Shivers/Chivers/Chavis/Cheevers out of Surry Co, VA, my maternal line, they went off to NC/SC, as well. It seems these Surry Co, VA families migrated out together to Craven Co, SC, probably because they were all intermarried and also mixed raced, largely Indian and white, though, the Chavis’ by that point were also black and they and us were very, very Indian by that point. I think they, these Surry Co, VA families were involved in the Indian trade from the inception of Jamestown. It seems clear my family was as we are Pamunkey and Saponi from the 1640’s and what appears to be MUCH earlier. I know Peter Gibson was living with Thomas Busby in around 1686 in Surry Co, VA and Busby was an Indian interpretor and Indian slaver (children). Peter was it appears a gunsmith which makes sense for an Indian trader and he had some connection I believe to my grandfather Thomas Gibson of Surry Co, VA. Peter later appears in York Co, VA with his brother Uses Gibson (possibly Eustis Gibson) and they were trouble, treating servants cruelly, etc. Very early Jamestown settler families made strong ties to one another that lasted centuries as is evidenced by the Gibsons ,Meriwhethers, Allens and so forth. I am also wondering if you and Justin Howell have been autosomally DNA tested as it may prove out we are in fact related. I can fill you in on that if you are interested. Joan Gibson, juanagibson@juno.com

      Joan Gibson

      March 17, 2014 at 9:26 pm

      • Hi there,

        Two things — with regard to Howells, I recently discovered that my oldest ancestor Richard Howell (born about 1795) received land from the estate of Hopkins Howell in about 1822 (when Hopkins Howell died). So, for now, I see him as the son of Hopkins Howell.

        Hopkins Howell (and Etheldred) are both Welsh names. I had my grandmother tested and her mtDNA line goes back to Wales. Nansemond County was settled by a group from Caernarvon, Wales, in the late 17th century. So that’s interesting.

        I have also had her autosomal done — She has about 2 percent Native American ancestry. The Pamunkey connection is interesting, because Collins is a common name among them, and I had heard that Pamunkey did in fact move south into North Carolina to escape local persecution. My grandmother’s name is Margaret Pittman (born in 1918 and still alive!) You can see her results on Gedmatch.

        justinpetrone

        March 18, 2014 at 8:21 am

      • Justin, if you have Collins DNA you are, have to be of Gibson descent because Gibsons and Collins are joined at the waist, so to speak. Also, Pittman is your grandmother’s surname, I assumed married name. Do you know anything about these Pittmans? Thos. Pittman of Surry Co, VA was a neigbhor of Thos. Gibson and they both fought in Bacon’s Rebellion. (Pittman descendancy is well documented on line, I believe.) Each man was fined 1000 pounds of sterling WHICH IS A HUGE AMOUNT OF MONEY back then. Some men had to forfeit their estates, others became indentured servants to pay off fines. Many were executed. But, that’s what you get when you drink all of Arthur Allen’s madeira and trash his house for three months. Allen’s son in law was Arthur Long who was a commander, a rebel, in the Rebellion. I think he was executed in Nov., 1677 for his role. Long and Thos. Gibson are in a Rebellion deposition where Thomas Gibbons(Gibson) shoots into Allen’s cattle. Any commanders were killed based on treason for what I read, hung, and probably drawn and quartered. Could you email me directly Justin as we need to take a look at DNA and matches on the aDNA level. juanagibson@juno.com I need to see Grammie’s results in depth and ancilliary families she may match, who she matches and remember, aDNA is a random fallout of DNA. We could still be related but not matched on aDNA.

        I am quite convinced Edmond Howell was some kind of relative to Gibson Gibson (Gibey Gibson of Charles City Co,VA who dies in 1727,my gramp) as he was the boy’s godfather and godfather to Henry Baker, as well. Baker was a planter and another neighbor in Surry. These folks, including Pittman, are all on the Sunken Marsh, Upper Chippokes Creek, Surry Co, VA tithe lists, 1668 and later. Neighbors marrying neighbors and many sound as if they were mixed race Indian and white. The black blood entered later,as after the Rebellion slavery took full foothold and 70,000 Angolans were brought into the colony over several decades (my DNA shows south African blood, Angolan, probably).

        If you were black and could prove VA Indian descent you could be freed, but, it was very dicey. The Evanses’ slave petition on Deloris Williams’ website is incredible The Evanses, (1790’s, early 1800’s) were my cousins (also, DNA analyses supporting this), enslaved by my other cousins, the Lightfoots, and the Evanses descend from Jane Gibson, the Elder, Indian Woman, born about 1640 of Charles City County, VA(Surry was created from Charles City in 1652). She was very dark mulatto (Indian and white as the word mulatto didn’t mean a black mix until the mid 1700’s or so) and had a brother George Gibson. She passed on the Carter-Hill plantation in Shirley Hundred in the 1720’s. Anyway, I think their dad was George Gibson, with wife Mary, of Upper Chippokes Creek, Charles City Co, VA (the creek separates the two counties, Surry and Charles), only Gibsons who seem to be there, all same family, who seemed to be old folks by the mid 1660’s and this George is a testee on 1652 land repatent for George Burcher (he is on the 1625 Jamestown census and was an early settler), meaning, Geo. Gibson had to have been around the area in 1636, probably as an adult, to be able to vouch about Burcher’s patent given to him in 1636 by the governor. Also, George Gibson was a planter and seemed to have the family temperament based upon court records. He was quite irreligious(didn’t believe in the Resurrection which is unheard of at that time unless you were Indian or of Indian descent) and didn’t give a hoot about what anyone thought, went about his business, and tried to get along with some very drunk troubling neighbors, all in court records, 1660’s for Charles City Co, VA.

        I am pretty convinced this George is the son of Thomas Gibson, gentleman, tradesman, soldier and sailor of the 1608 Second Supply who lived with the Pamunkeys in 1608 and who appears to be the brother of Lord Drury, Alexander Gibson, of Goldingston, County Fife, Scotland, their dad, George Gibson the II or III, can’t recall. We are related to that family per mid 19th century correspondence of female VA cousins, Lucy Gibson Buckner and Sarah Gibson Humphries (a Gideon Gibson descendant) and my gg grandfather’s oral history, George William Gibson, of Calhoun Co, WV, born about 1840 in Bath or Culpeper County, VA. Rev. Edmund Gibson, Bishop of London, was a cousin. These Goldingstone Gibsons came over with William the Conqueror and were well taken care of by the kings of England, given clerical and ecclaisistical (sp?) jobs to help maintain English government. Family legend has it that these Goldinston Gibsons sent over three Gibson brothers to help settle the new VA colony, but, it’s looking to me like their arrivals were spaced over decades.

        I think the Thomas Gibson of the 1608 Second Supply is the SAME Thomas Gibson who lives in York Co, VA, is a clerk magistrate with John Utie, JR and Robert Bouth (both of these men having Gibson connections, “oddly”) and in 1638 is assigned 100 acres from Utie on, lo and behold! Upper Chippokes Creek. This Thomas of York dies in 1652, is literate,wealthy and leaves two minor children to his wife who has an adult family from a previous marriage, some of her kids living in England. Looks like a no brainer to me, but, documentation is what’s needed to connect all of this dots and it will be DNA that does it. I am trying to connect with UK Goldingston Gibsons re this but no one is interested.

        I am quite sure Thomas Gibson’s parents (Thomas of Bacon’s Rebellion) were George and Mary Gibson, above (siblings Jane and George),just over the creek and the land they all owned was contiguous. I do know Thomas was an Indian mix because his son Gibson Gibson was as VA law treated him such based on his illegal indentureship and Gibey’s mom was white Dubliner Elizabeth Chavis (Gibson Gibson also named two of his kids, George and Mary, possibly after his grandparents?????George and Mary Gibson, above????). She and her parents came over to Surry Co, VA from Dublin with 22 servants. Thos. Montgomery, a Chavis descendant (but, not of Elizabeth, but of her brother) has some good research on her. Her dad was the second son of a second son, and primogeniture forced them over to the Colony.

        Anyway, email me and we can figure out the DNA connection. I can let you look into my account. Does your grandmother have any Indian stories about the family? My dad came up at about 5 percent East Indian, but, I am sure it is Native American. Also, my older relatives look Pamunkey and Saponi, to this day. But, there is NO Native American percentages yet calculated via DNA testing as the sampling pools are way too small. How do you know Grammie is 2 percent Native American? Any Saponi? Got to be if you are Collinses. Any Basses in your line, Indian mixes out of Nansemond County, VA? Also, I can tell by family photos if there is a relation. I am just about dead center with that, almost as accurate as Annie Oakley!

        What I’ve told you so far is just the tip of a huge genealogical iceberg. There’s more to this I have researched, but, one thing at a time. Also, Pouncy Anderson, from what I recall, witnessed Gibson Gibson’s son’s will or such, that would be rascally Gilbert Gibson out of Louisa Co, VA. We definately have Anderson connections and I hope to find them. Pouncy is out of your Andersons, Marc. Joan

        Joan Gibson

        March 18, 2014 at 10:51 am

      • Oh, wow. Pittman is my grandmother’s maiden name, but the Native American connection appears to be through her grandmother, Martha Lydia Collins, who descends from Thomas Collins (1769-1849) and Anna Russell. While the Russell’s were established in Nansemond County, the Collins actually were living in the Bennett’s Creek area of Gates County (then Hertford, and before that Chowan) before the 1790s. I know this because they show up on militia lists in the 1780s headed by James Arline, who lived in that area at that time, and because James Arline fathered a child out of wedlock with Sarah Collins, the widow of John Collins. Interestingly, I cannot find any records of this family in the Gates, Chowan, or Hertford records prior to about 1783. BUT, there was a John Collins who was a major landowner in the same area in the 1720s and 1730s. He owned land in Chowan, and later moved to Bertie County and died in 1751, leaving a very famous will. Now THIS John Collins (born circa 1690)

        I have heard about this Saponi connection but have found nothing to substantiate it, and a lot of the online genealogical work is just wrong based on my research. I feel like I know most of the Collins families in the region, and so I can rule out connections to any of them. There were two Indian towns in the vicinity of where my Collins lived in the 1780s — Meherrin Indian Town and Chowan Indian Town. There are some connections to the Chowanoke (this John Collins was involved in some land transactions with James Eure, supposedly the son of Stephen Eure and a Chowanoke woman), as well as Meherrin (John Collins’ wife Martha Odom was a niece of Abraham Odom and Sybil Barnes, supposedly a Meherrin woman). And Collins is a common name among the Meherrin today (a Collins family with some connection to ours identified themselves as Indian in a Hertford County census in 1900). But there is no fact to connect the John Collins of the 1730s with the Thomas and William Collins of the 1780s. Only that they lived in the same place and had the same neighbors and family links.

        My grandmother’s DNA? Well, don’t forget, she was born in 1918. If you trace he line back, her Indian ancestor would have been born in the mid-18th century, specifically in this 1740-1780 gray zone. I got the autosomal DNA result and then confirmed it using multiple tools (and sending it to a specialist). She has the same hits in the same places on the same chromosomes. I just had her tested with another vendor, as well as my father, so we can work on this some more. I also show about 0.5 percent Native ancestry. I will let you know once the results are in. Gedmatch is currently down, but when it is up I can send a link. You can also look at my blog rootdownandgetit.wordpress.com, as well as this post, which has an image of my great grandfather Tom Pittman (son of Martha Collins). http://martaplusanna.blogspot.com/2012/05/tom.html

        justinpetrone

        March 18, 2014 at 4:55 pm

      • Awesome and your Thos Pittman is VERY Indian. Get off the white man’s clothes and that boy is Indian. Wow. Based on photo on your blog spot. My Gibson-Collins cousins can probably track back your Collins’ lineage but I am not sure how to email them all via this blog, etc. Your Collins’ names are familiar to me. We were in Chowan, big time. The Collins are not in my direct line that I know of, but, they are in other lines of my Gibson family. That area, SC and NC TN and KY aren’t my expertise, Jamestown is, so, it would be my cousins who may offer some help there. They are all up on Gedmatch, particularly, David Brian Gibson, who has strong Collins’ ancestry. His great grandmother looks almost full blooded Cherokee. She was Hattie Collins Gibson, I believe. out of Newman’s Ridge, TN, via Chowan, way back. .My results and Dad’s aren’t on Gedmatch, but, David’s are. David and Dad are a near perfect Y-DNA 67 marker match. I can’t quite trace the Indian looks of your Thomas, but, less VA Indian and more Carolina and he looks familiar to me but, I can’t tell you why. I am very limited for time and am not sure if I will be able to tie this all in around this blog via emailing directly as it is taking me several extra steps. But, you do want to get those Gedmatch results to David and hopefully he will share them in ways I can understand because I can make the historical connections early on among several of these lines, understand Y-dna analysis very well, but, haven’t come up to par on the aDNA as my time is spent on other research projects. Meantime, it may be within your reach at this time to track your Pittmans back further, possibly, into Surry. The Andersons are all in there somewhere in this mix and related to Gideon Gibson, Gideon, whose descendants Y-dna are also an almost perfect match with David and Dad.JG

        Joan Gibson

        March 18, 2014 at 5:26 pm

  3. …concerning “Howells”
    Just following a hunch…. the Land Records for Wayne County don’t start until 1780 (and the area was probably another county name before that)
    At familysearch.org website

    North Carolina, Probate Records, 1735-1970WayneLand Records, 1780-1795

    Several suspicious names pop up… Howell, Langston, Ballard and Jernigan (could it be a group of sons of the earlier Nansemond guys packed up and moved?)

    There are court minutes at the website also starting in 1783 … image 27 has a “William Howell” selling land. This is mid 1780s.

    I hate skipping generations but we are grasping at straws here… A John Howell leaves a will and obvious records… perhaps these earlier guys can be linked to Nansemond?????

    anderson1951

    July 4, 2013 at 6:06 am

  4. Hi folks

    I’ve been preoccupied with the inevitable computer problems lately and haven’t been researching much… but noticed your comments…

    To recap some of my thoughts… my Surry/IOW map is probably my most potent info to perhaps offer some insight into some of the early Nansemond settlers… there simply are no other sources that I know of. It at least offers the “chance” to make some discoveries.

    The challenge of discovering the connections of the early Gibsons (and others) is just too much of a puzzle for me to pass up. Good fun but also with a nod to history.

    anderson1951

    March 18, 2014 at 8:20 pm

    • Is that Surry/IOW map somewhere on line? Sorry if I’ve missed it, but, would love to take a look. Also, when you refer to “early Nansemond” settlers,” you are meaning early white English colonists into what became Nansemond County? Or, the Nansemond Indians? Also, the Surry Co, VA court records and wills, deeds, etc. are on microfiche and have records as early as the 1630’s (James City records, few and sketchy). It’s these records (extremely EXTANT, but, difficult to read due to surname variants, diffusing of ink over 400 years and a 30 letter Saxon/Anglo early alphabet and some poor recorders -NOTE, Eliza Timberlake Davis’ transcription left out most of the Gibsons and is not a good resource – always use the original) that have been the foundation of my research on the Gibsons/Gibbons, Edmond Howell, William and Elizabeth Chavis/Chivers (siblings, William’s wife was also an Elizabeth, probably a mixed race woman), Col. William Browne (I believe my Gibsons as well as the Andersons married into this family, but, I have NOT researched that), George and Arthur Jordan, George Foster, the Ironmongers, John Collins, Henry and Lawrence Baker, Thomas Busby and his son,Thomas Busby, Jr., William Hansford, Thomas Pittman and his son Thomas Pittman, Jr., the Meriwheters, the Allens, Rugbye and Peter Gibson, Roger Gibson and so on. Many of these surnames end up in Chowan and Bertie Co, NC and many are also of York Co, VA as it seemed there was some kind of ongoing transmigration (probably economic) of these families between York Co (north side of the James) and Surry/Charles Co (south side of the James), back and forth, back and forth, during the 1600’s and early 1700’s, possibly, longer. It SEEMS like the families that left for NC may have been Indian mixes and Indian traders (makes sense), whereas the wealthy, literate families, like the Meriwhethers, remained in VA and that family did migrate to Louisa Co, VA, near Gilbert Gibson and that family owned slaves descended from Jane Gibson, the Elder, Indian woman, and that family married into the Ross’ and the Allens, with Lewis Allen later owning Thomas Gibson, aka Mingo Jackson, who was freed in the 1790’s as he could claim descent from a VA Indian, Jane Gibson (Evanses’ family slave petition on Deloris William’s website and she is an expert on those above NC counties and the genealogy and I believe an Evanses/Jane Gibson descendant). Just let me know where I can find those maps and so appreciate your blog. Also how far back can you get your Andersons? There’s so much info flying around here, I am not catching it all. CAn you show relation to Pouncy Anderson as I can move his line back into IOW, based on what I have seen online and his association with my early Gibsons. Joan Gibson

      Joan Gibson

      March 19, 2014 at 7:34 am

  5. map is here…

    https://andersonnc.wordpress.com/some-surryiow-patents/

    * My reference was to the early white settlers. Other than archaeology, I think it is a fruitless endeavor to look for, shall we say, written records for the various Indians. I get the distinct impression they were difficult to depose. 🙂

    * To date I have found nothing to connect my particular Anderson line outside of Edgecombe County prior to say, 1752. I have a hunch the line may track to Isle of Wight 1695 but I have no proof. Hence my interest in the folks of IOW and Nansemond.

    * Family lore had it we had some Indian blood… but per my early 12 pt DNA foray I am pretty much standard issue W. European stock (Scottish per family history).

    I’ve done a rather involved study of one John Browne of Nansemond you may find interesting… many of the surnames you mention are in the account. I have no known relation to any Browns … I simply could not seem to stop researching the guy… I am rather proud of the effort; it is my most popular “Page”. I think it was his son who was the father of the woman who married Gideon Gibson. The “tangled web” sort of thing. 🙂 Also I suspect a Howell daughter (of Nansemond) married the other son of this John Browne.

    https://andersonnc.wordpress.com/john-browne-of-kingsale-1639-1713-indian-trader/

    I enjoy your comments… interesting stuff…

    Marc

    anderson1951

    March 19, 2014 at 4:31 pm

    • Hi, Marc,

      First off, GREAT map you shared of Surry/IOW. Thanks. I didn’t see a source. Is it from Kornwulf’s book on Surry? Many of the patent holders are on those Surry Co, VA tithe lists and the very early patent holders, like George Burcher, Hog Island area, are still on that map (ditto on John Collins, and there was a John Collins who came over with Thomas Gibson on the 1608 Second Supply to Jamestown, and viola, both these names show up early on in Surry, which was just across from Jamestown, like a mile across the river or less), but, the map is a bit later than I had hoped and not complete. I was hoping to find the 400 acres in Sunken Marsh that Thos. Tyas/Tias purchased from Thos. Gibbons/Gibson in March, 1688. I wonder if there are more patents out there not yet put onto that map. However, it looks to me that George Gibson of Charles City Co, VA who appears to be an old man in the mid 1660’s was a planter near Burcher in the mid 1630’s and possibly earlier, which ties George back into the Thomas Gibson/Gybson who dies in York co, VA in 1652 (possible Thomas Gibson of the 1608 Second Supply), John Utie, Sr. and Jr., Robert Bouth/Booth (whose wife was a Frances Gibson per Booth family oral history and mysteriously note, Thomas Gybson gifted a heifer and 50 acres of land to their daughter, Elizabeth Booth for “reasons known only to me -Gybson” – I know what that sounds like to me, but?????) and also ties in with Francis Gibson, and Raphe Hamor (Raphe came into the colony in 1607, left in 1614 to return to England and then later returned in like 1619 – he and John Rolfe were very good friends and it was Raphe who went to Chief Powhatan, to try to get one of his daughters for Gov. Dale to marry, besides the fact he ALREADY was married, back in England). You see, Utie, Sr. owned land at the mouth to Hog Island and he also assigned 100 acres to Thomas Gibson/Gybson of York, along the Upper Chippokes in 1638. “Assigns.” Utie, Sr. and Jr. were clerk magistrates like Thomas Gibsons/Gybson of York, as was Robert Bouth/Booth – those guys were joined at the hip, and it looks to me that Gybson was given this 100 acres as a patent for being an original settler, like the Uties were. Also it gets weirder. Francis Gibson came over from England in 1621 with Utie,Sr.’s wife and Jr. on a ship full of marriageable ladies and Francis was but a boy and they came on the Seaflower, Hamor’s ship and Francis was a servant in Raphe’s home and lived with Jeremiah Clements (Claremont), a later large Surry Co, VA planter. Jeremiah was Raphe’s stepson and somehow these Uties, Booths, and Gibsons are all intertwined. I found a Francis Gibson in a 1652 or 1656 James City Co, VA quarter court record in Surry Co, VA public records, along with John White (James City Co, VA burgess in 1642) a Mayo and a few other guys, all acting as court officials in receiving the land sale of the Parkers (grandkid of Capt. William Powell of Surry co, VA) to Wm. Batt. A lot of the early settlers were rewarded with administrative powers/jobs to manage the new colony. A Francis Gibson is buried next to my grandfather, Gibey Gibson (Gibson Gibson) who died in Charles City Co, VA in 1727 due to what was apparently a neighborhood epidemic, and a Thomas Gibson is buried on the other side of Gibey in Sandy Point, VA, just across the river from Sunken Marsh in Surry Co, VA where Thomas Gibson/Gibbons of Bacon’s Rebellion lived and he was Gibson Gibson’s father. All of this is documented in a variety of sound sources and I need to start gathering it up.

      Also, you really need to be Y-DNA tested to the 67 marker level to have any meaningful analysis done on your Anderson matches. This may pull you back further in history, out of Edgecombe Co, NC. I can help you with that. I know a great deal about those analyses. Also, you may wish to get autosomally DNA tested as my cousin David Brian Gibson has and he has Andersons matching him as he confirmed with me today. I am sure we are related. Joan Gibson juanagibson@juno.com

      Joan Gibson

      March 19, 2014 at 9:28 pm

      • Joan
        The source of the Surry map is me… I’ve been building those maps over the course of several years. 99% of the patents are from Lib of Virginia website… I transcribe the metes and bounds and attempt to correctly place them. There is guesswork involved (as a caveat of caution).

        anderson1951

        March 20, 2014 at 7:51 am

      • Wonderful work! Thank you so much re compiling those land patent maps. I believe there is a reference librarian at LVA, named Joanne, who may have access to very old stored maps of Surry Co, VA, just FYI, in case you may not know.

        I am trying to find the ACTUAL Upper Chippokes land owned by Thomas Gibson of Surry Co, VA and Thomas Gybson of York Co, VA (assigned to him by Utie – Utie had owned Utopia, an 100 acres of it on the Upper Chippoke that Gybson got). That 400 acres owned by Thos. Gibson of Surry Co apparently bordered William Carpenter and Benj. Harrison and was near Bacon’s Castle, so, that land would have been on the UPPER portion of LOWER Chippokes, yet, it is included in the Sunken Marsh tithe list, which would be the Upper Chippokes Creek, several miles away from the Lower Chippokes Creek, which are NOT connected, best I can tell. HOWEVER, it may be these “Upper Chippoke” pieces of Gybson, Utie, and Thos. Gibson of Surry Co VA in fact may have been the upper portion of the Lower Chippokes on later dated maps surveyed out what today is known as Upper Chippokes Creek, just across from Sandy Point, VA. Any thought on this, anyone? Still trying to figure it all out, but, your maps are helpful and I am most grateful for your dedication Joan Gibson

        Joan Gibson

        March 20, 2014 at 9:59 am

      • Joan you are the most informed person I’ve found on the Gibson’s! I believe I’m a descendant of Thomas Gibson who died in 1734. Do you agree that he had a son Thomas born 1718, who had a son Major born 1735, who had a son Issac born 1770? If so do, do you have any documentation or story’s on them? Also, do you believe this line is descended from Thomas Gibson of the second supply ship to Jamestown?
        Thanks!

        Kristine Schaufler

        April 24, 2016 at 11:01 am

      • Hi, Kristine, SORRY FOR THE DELAY IN RESPONDING. CHECK OUT MY LARGE CAPPED RESPONSES, BELOW: Joan you are the most informed person I’ve found on the Gibson’s! WELL, GLAD TO HEAR I AM DOING THE FAMILY CREDIT! THANK YOU. I believe I’m a descendant of Thomas Gibson who died in 1734. WHY DO YOU BELIEVE THIS?Do you agree that he had a son Thomas born 1718, who had a son Major born 1735, who had a son Issac born 1770? NO. THOMAS GIBSON WHO DIES IN 1734 IN HANOVER CO VA HAD A PRETTY WELL OUTLINED WILL AND YOU CAN FIND IT ONLINE BUT YOUR BEST BET IS TO SEE THE ORIGINAL ON MICROFICHE, SOMETHING I HAVE NOT DONE. HIS KIDS MIGRATED OUT WITH MY GIBSONS TO THE CAROLINAS OR IN THAT AREA. NO ONE IS SURE IF THEY ARE RELATED TO MY GIBSONS BUT, THEY SURE SOUND LIKE IT TO M E. THAT LINE’S YDNA (ONLY FOUR MEN TESTED WHO ALL DESCEND FROM THE SAME ANCESTOR SO I QUESTION IF THERE WAS A NON PATERNITY EVENT – NEED A LARGER SAMPLE SIZE, LIKE MY LINE HAS) DOESN’T M ATCH MY LINE’S. BUT, I HAVE SEEN THAT HAPPEN BEFORE WHEN THE LINE CARRIES THE MATERNAL NAME OF THE PARENT WHICH HAPPENS WITH MY FAMILY AND OTHER NATIVE AMERICAN LINE FAMILIES.If so do, do you have any documentation or story’s on them? Also, do you believe this line is descended from Thomas Gibson of the second supply ship to Jamestown? I BELIEVE MY LINE IS DESCENDED FROM THE THOMAS GIBSON OF THE 1608 SECOND SUPPLY, THOUGH, THIS IS NOT DOCUMENTED AS OF YET BUT I AM WORKING ON IT AND AM CLOSE. THIS THOMAS LIVE AMONG THE PAMUNKEY/MATTAPONI IN 1608, WAS SOME KIND OF WORKER IN WOOD, MAYBE A SHIPWRIGHT OR COOPER (APPARENTLY NOT A CARPENTER AS CAPTAIN SMITH COMPLAINED AT THAT TIME THERE WAS ONLY ONE DECENT CARPENTER IN THE WHOLE OF JAMESTOWN AND THE SECOND SUPPLY MEN WERE LIBERTINES – LOVE THAT WORD, THAT’S SMITH’S WORD AND THEY WERE USELESS, SONS OF SECOND SONS AND LEFT TO FEND FOR THEMSELVES DUE TO PRIMOGENITURE BUT WERE CONSIDERED GENTLEMEN TRYING TO FIND TRADES. OH, WELL. POOR SMITH. GOT STUCK WITH THE MERCHANT AND UPPER CLASS OUTCASTS WHO WOULD RATHER BOWL IN THE STREETS THEN PLANT CORN AND IN TURN STOLE IT FROM THE NATIVES WHO THEMSELVES WERE EXPERIENCING FAMINE DUE TO BAD LONGSTANDING DROUGHT CONDITIONS, NOTHING IN COMPARISON TO WHAT WAS COMING. SOME OF THESE ENGLISHMEN DUG THEIR OWN GRAVES, LITERALLY, KNOWING THE END WAS NEAR). MY FAMILY IS DOCUMENTED INDIAN BACK TO THE 1640’S NEAR JAMESTOWN. CHECK OUT MY FB PAGE GIBSONS OF OLD JAMESTOWN AND LOUISA CO VA AS IT HAS LOADS OF INFO. THE THOMAS WHO DIES IN 1734 I DO BELIEVE IS RELATED TO MY LINE AND MAY HAVE BEEN THE LEGITIMATE DESCENDANT OF MY GRAMP THOMAS GIBSON/GIBBON OF SURRY CO, VA BORN ABOUT 1647, WHO APPARENTLY WAS A SAWYER AND COOPER, LIKE WHAT APPEARS TO BE THE CASE WITH THOMAS GIBSON OF THE 1608 SECOND SUPPLY. THOMAS OF SURRY’S SON GIBSON GIBSON WAS A COOPER AS WELL AS HIS SON, EDWARD. GOOD TRADE TO HAVE IN JAMESTOWN DUE TO TRADE WITH ENGLAND.

        juanagibson@juno.com

        April 27, 2016 at 7:40 pm

      • Thanks Joan your notes were very helpful. I found your FB page “Gibsons of Old Jamestown”, love it!

        This is the line I beleive I can prove : Issac P. Gibson (1770 Burkes County, North Carolina to 1837 Knox County Kentucky) Issac Gibson (1811 Tennessee to 1870 Des Moines, Iowa) Elijah Gibson (1835 Knox Kentucky to 1929 Des Moines, Iowa)

        Does Issac P. match your line? I asked you about Thomas Gibson who died in 1734 because I’ve found many comments about him linking him to my line, but no proof. I thought you may have more knowledge then anyone if he could be part of my line.

        Thanks again, Kristine

        Kristine Schaufler

        April 30, 2016 at 5:31 pm

      • Sorry I made a typing error on a name, ISAAC should be the correct spelling for both. Thanks!

        Kristine Schaufler

        April 30, 2016 at 5:39 pm

    • Autosomal DNA testing is probably the best way to “confirm” Indian ancestry. My ancestors disappeared prior to the 1780s. I cannot connect them to the Collins landowner who was there 30 years prior, because he has a well established family tree, and supporting documents. I can say that some of HIS sons married into the Bunch and Bass families. But my Collins may have just been living there and remained undocumented. The area is called “Scratch Hall” because you couldn’t get across it without getting scratched in a fight. There are stories about a mestizo community of poor whites and Native Americans who lived there, and that might help to explain my grandmother’s DNA result. But, yes, I think trying to “prove it” with records is a futile endeavor.

      justinpetrone

      March 20, 2014 at 10:33 am

  6. Joan
    I don’t have the time right now to do justice to the level of research you are hinting at with these Surry folks…

    My map of that area of “Chippoke” area is rudimentary at best… however, the Surry records are a treat for me to deal with because they are in fact capable of great detail.

    When you combine the actual patents (and feel a high degree of confidence that the placement of the neighbors in correct) with the “tithables” lists (usually over several years) it is amazing to me what you can find (genealogy wise and historically).

    A tedious example of what I mean can be found in this study of some ROGERS of Surry… I did this last year for a commenter and surprised myself with the amount of facts that turned up… again, this is just a sample of what can be accomplished with these map studies. I think it is the “next” level of genealogy that we all need.

    https://andersonnc.wordpress.com/john-rogers-notes/

    anderson1951

    March 20, 2014 at 4:26 pm

  7. Justin
    I have an interest in the COLLINS clan in respect to my study of the Indian Trader John Browne…

    https://andersonnc.wordpress.com/john-browne-of-kingsale-1639-1713-indian-trader/

    If you have the interest and inclination (I’m giving you fair warning 🙂 I would be interested in your take of the Collins, Susanna Braswell and Bridgett (Browne?) imbroglio… I am pretty much perplexed but think that I sniff out a relationship here… it is a missing piece of the puzzle. My objective with this study is to connect the sons of the Indian Trader. (do a search of the page for “Collins” and you can pick up his trail)

    I find this John Browne story fascinating… (and again, I have no connection… it is purely a historical interest… I got hooked in the mystery and can’t let go 🙂

    A side note concerning the early Chowanoke and Meherrins… I have an odd and complex theory of some of the VERY early guys directly at the mouth of the Meherrin River ca. 1660s or so… my initial musing are at this link…

    https://andersonnc.wordpress.com/ttt-murdack_meherrin/

    and here for the map…

    https://andersonnc.wordpress.com/roanoke-r-to-chowan-1863-civil-war-map/

    If I am correct then historians need to be very cautious when the term “Bennet’s Creek” is referenced… it may have been this area of the Meherrin mouth… then again, I may just be losing my mind.

    anderson1951

    March 20, 2014 at 4:53 pm

    • I know my cousin Kathy James (Newman Ridge, TN melungeon line) has Braswell and Collins ancestry. I am trying to get her to read this blog. If this John Browne guy was an Indian trader and out of Surry (am I right about the latter part?), then, it would seem he has some connection to Lt. Col. William Browne whose daughter married Gideon Gibson??? Am I right about that? Also, I need to go back and look at Gibey (Gibson) Gibson’s on line will as I am sure his son in law’s name was Isaac Browne. Gideon and Gibson Gibson’s descendants have an almost perfect 67 marker-DNA match meaning they probably had the same dad or Gibson Gibson could have been Gideon’s dad but family oral tradition states that Gideon descended from a John Gibson, whom I think may have been a half brother to Gibson Gibson. Oh, well, but the Y-
      dna connection is very tight, but, we have had such inbreeding early on that what looks like tight relationships/connections in fact, are not. Thos. Gibson (Gibson’s dad) was MARRIED at the time of the Rebellion per a deposition. His wife’s name on the 1688 land sale and relinquishment of her dower’s rights was Mary. Elizabeth Chavis never appears to have been Thomas’ wife but I think as a teenager she was knocked up by also teenaged Thomas and by that time he was on his way to marrying someone else or whatever. There is a lot of this “whatever” stuff in my family. Both Gideon and Gibson Gibon’s lines have Jordan Gibsons in them, Jordan kids of Gideon and Jordan grandkids of Gibson Gibson. So, some male Gibson married a female Jordan during a specific time frame in Surry Co, VA and it wasn’t Gibson Gibson but possibly his dad, Thos. or grandfather (speculative) George Gibson of Charles City Co, VA. Both lines have lots of Gideons in them. If I sat down and really thought about it, I could probably figure it out, it’s that close. Joan Gibson

      Joan Gibson

      March 20, 2014 at 9:32 pm

    • I am descended from several of these “suspicious characters” including William Hunter and perhaps John Browne (William Hunter’s grandson William Battle married Sarah Browne, daughter of Dr. John Browne). That is all on my Pittman side. It is interesting to see this name Boothe everywhere. The Boothe family was on a lot of the Gates County records that involve my Collins family.

      justinpetrone

      March 21, 2014 at 3:33 pm

      • If you really want to get your mind twisted, try to figure out how Robert Bouth/Booth of York Co VA, whose pal and coworker and probably relative is related to Thomas Gybson of York Co, VA (this is the SAME Thos. who is assigned in 1638 100 acres on Upper Chippokes Creek, near what I think was in fact the mouth to Hog Island and what may have actually been the upper portion of the Lower Chippokes, which at that early date may simply have been known, logically, as Upper Chippokes Creek (NOT the same area as Upper Chippokes Creek in Sunken Marsh of which Thos. Gibson/Gibson is granted 400 acres in 1683 for transports)). Oh, la, de, da. I think this Robert may have had a son Richard Booth, but, I need to find where I saw that documented online. Robert, apparently, has no extant estate papers, but, I think he died the same year as Thomas Gybson, 1652, possibly, 1657. Both men were good pals of John Utie, Jr. All three were simultaneously clerk magistrates in York Co, VA in the early 1640’s. Gybson is on record for many things due to his position as such and he would inventory estates. This type of work is what the Goldingstone Gibsons in Cumbria/Yorkshire and Fife Counties did for centuries – men of the cloth and court. Also, Thos. Pittman and Thos.. Gibson both of Surry Co, VA fought together in Bacon’s Rebellion and were similarly fined. Pittman, I think, left Surry for a few years after the Rebellion as I don’t recall him on the tithe lists. Thos. Gibson was absent, I believe, on the 1678 tithe list, but, don’t quote me on that. He was pretty much on every tithe list taken from their inception in 1668 to the time he left the county in 1688. Any way, he and Pittman and a third guy were appointed “attorneys” in the early summer of 1676 for a Thos. Barlow who had to go back to England for business. Good timing. Joan Gibson

        Joan Gibson

        March 21, 2014 at 4:57 pm

  8. It’s been a while, but here is what I have stumbled across … In looking at other DNA matches with Amerindian results, I found a family that descends from Thomas Harrington, the Indian Trader, of Bertie County. I match this family within the past four to five generations … They also have a Native ancestor born in the mid-to-late 18th century, and a similar amount of admixture. The name Whitmell also figures here, as do Colson and Collins, all of Bertie. It seems that descendants of some of the Trader families have Amerindian ancestry. The question is, do we descend from the Tuscarora, among whom they lived at that time? Were their wives Tuscarora? Because I don’t have the names Whitmell or Harrington in my tree.

    justinpetrone

    December 13, 2014 at 9:08 am


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