Andersons of Colonial N. Carolina

so I start this site in Virginia… go figure

Joseph Pitman born 1757

with 12 comments

Is anyone familiar with this bible reference?

http://digital.ncdcr.gov/u?/p15012coll1,4672

This must be Hugh B. Johnston’s take…

24 pages of the Job Braddy (1825) estate here… https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-26253-9512-82?cc=1911121&wc=MMBQ-4FT:1791818538
(no mention of any Pitmans)

See here where we discuss this mystery William Pitman… https://andersonnc.wordpress.com/andrew-ross-will/#comments
—————————–
This can get REALLY interesting… I have not seen Mr. Johnston’s article on this William Pitman before today. All of my research on the guy has him being born AT LEAST by 1738 or earlier (he was present in the 1754 militia and he would need to be at least 16).

So…. not only am I interested in him but also the Joseph b1757 who (I assume) is related… or is he?
—————————–

I ran this by my buddy Holmes and he is skeptical of Mr. Johnston’s take on the William Pitman. I agree… we just don’t see a connection to the daughter of Andrew Ross. Mr. Johnston writes, “Consequently the disposal of the land received by the one remarried to William Pitman should establish her exact identity in the Edgecombe County Deeds at Tarboro.” That “one” would be Judith Ross. Unfortunately I still am at a loss to identify this William (although I offer a hunch).

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Written by anderson1951

October 17, 2012 at 8:21 am

Posted in Uncategorized

12 Responses

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  1. Marc,

    1.) What in Hugh’s article would dispute a birthdate for William of 1738 or earlier?

    2.) What’s your take on William being a “son-in-law” to Andrew?

    3.) Have you tracked the land that the daughters inherited, as Hugh suggests? (If not, maybe I could help you out with that.)

    Traci Thompson

    October 22, 2012 at 8:11 am

    • 1. Just like Mr Johnston, my first reaction was to look to the son in law (Wm Pitman) of Andrew Ross. I conjured up the 1738 date merely in reference to a Wm Pitman being in the 1754 militia rolls and thinking out loud he would have to be born by 1738 to be “of age” for the militia… hope it doesn’t cloud the issue.

      2&3. We got pretty down and dirty in tracking the Ross/Pitman connection… see my Page “Andrew Ross will”…. that William is another frustrating mystery guy. I can’t figure out where he came from, when he arrived in Edgecombe or when he died. No doubt he married Judith Ross tho’.

      There may be 2 William Pitmans(1760s era)… or not?

      Here is the White Oak Swamp guy…

      Edge. Co. Db C, page 70, deed date 22 Apr 1763, recorded Oct Ct 1763,
      John Pitmane, Edge. Co to Robert Armstrong for 43 pds VA or proc money,
      a tract containing 210 acres being the plantation where the said Robert
      Armstrong now lives beginning at the mouth of (tan Tross) Branch on the
      north side of White Oak Swamp then up the said branch to a white oak on
      the side of the branch then an agreed line to a large pine a (head)
      line then to a black then on the said line center of two pines then
      north 10 east 153 poles to a red oak then north 80 poles to the White
      Oak Swamp then down the said swamp to the said ( ) begun, signed John
      Pitman (X), wit Arthur Philips (X), (Drury Maclanar) (X). NOTE: FILM
      HARD TO READ. Abstracted 8-20-05, NCA film C.037.40002, CTC.

      Edge. Co. Db C, page 251, deed date 20 Apr 1764, recorded Oct Ct 1764,
      Robert Armstrong, Edge. Co to William Pitman, county aforesaid for 4
      pds VA, a tract on the north side of White Oak Swamp being taken out of
      (Rite McLemosa’s) patent beginning at a white oak then (8 east) 153
      poles to the center of two pines then to a black jack corner tree then
      in the said line to a pine then to an agreed line to a white oak on the
      side of (Tentros Branch) then down the said branch to its mouth ( )
      then to the first station, being 60 acres, signed Robert Armstrong, wit
      Joseph C. Pitman, Hannah Pitman (mark). NOTE: FILM HARD TO READ.
      Abstracted 8-27-05, NCA film C.037.40002, CTC.

      I can’t associate the above guys directly to the Andrew Ross William Pitman???
      Perhaps this is the William of the bible reference?

      This guy is cleary associated with Ross…
      DB 2-43 EARL GRANVILLE grant to WILLIAM PITMAN of Edgecombe Co., April 1,
      1763, a tract of 305 acres adjoining Ross, Thomas Williams, John Moore,
      Henry Horn, Watkins, Barnes, and Pitman
      (this property is near Nash County/Tar River)

      The Braddy bible reference is just baffling…

      anderson1951

      October 22, 2012 at 9:19 am

  2. As you say, could be more than one William Pittman, or not. I would think the mentions of William in the Bible refer to the same guy. William of the Bible has a daughter born 1755, and so would fit a birthdate in the 1730s. On the next page is the inscription “William Pittman his book god gave him grace 1757” implying the Bible belongs to him as of that date. Looks like he could read and write by 1757, anyway.

    Remember the Joseph with a clear connection to Elizabeth married a Hannah – are the witnesses to the 1764 deed the same Joseph and Hannah?

    I’ll talk to my Braddy buddy about where that family was located.

    Traci Thompson

    October 22, 2012 at 2:20 pm

    • Could it not be that William is a brother to the Mary and Joseph mentioned? It could be he was just given the bible in 1757… he could even be a bit older that the others… I just can’t see anything to build on here unless the Braddy researchers have something concrete to add. If our reasoning is correct, the wife of Wm Pitman (Judith Ross) died between 1763 & 1765, which further contradicts Mr Johnston’s theory. Much ado about nothing?

      Around 1760s I’m confident that Andrew Ross and most likely his son in law William were on the Swift Creek property (near Falling Run creek). The White Oak property was just a couple miles NE of there so once again we have people almost on top of each other who may or may not be completely different families and unrelated.

      I’m pretty sure by 1763 or so Wm Pitman/Judith Ross were situated on the Tar River/Nash County.
      ——-
      Hmmm, as an afterthought, if Judith Ross Pitman died about 1763/5 (and we think he remarried a Margaret ____?… if that is a Braddy then we could have a connection.

      Not sure what happened to the White Oak Swamp folks in Edgecombe… (IF? they were a different clan)

      I won’t even mention that I am mulling over the possibility this Wm Pitman is yet another son of Robert Pitman of Halifax…. nope… not even going there… 🙂 (that would explain the Joseph w/Hannah deed tho’)

      anderson1951

      October 22, 2012 at 3:36 pm

      • Caution!… I’m about to dangerously theorize!
        You mentioned in an earlier email that the Braddy researchers somehow connected Elias Fort m. Olive Pitman… which frankly DUMBFOUNDED me…… it may make sense…

        William Pitman m. Judith Ross (this can be proven)
        …………. she dies between 1763/65
        He remarries Margaret ___________

        Elias Fort “purportedly” marries Olive Pitman…….. this Elias lived in Halifax County near Beach Swamp and fairly close to Robert Pitman of Halifax. Robert and Olive Pitman were brother/sister.

        If William Pitman (of the bible) DID marry Margaret BRADDY, then Olive Pitman could be his aunt.
        Notice how I just threw in the idea that Robert was his father? 🙂
        —————-
        Don’t get confused with the Elias Fort who lived on the Tar River near Swift Creek… he was the son of George Fort. The Elias who lived in Halifax was the son of John Fort of Surry, VA. They were cousins.

        anderson1951

        October 23, 2012 at 6:57 am

  3. Believe it or not, I am so far agreeing with your theorizing! Of course, more evidence is needed, but hey…

    Regarding the status of Bible William, sure, he could be a sibling to the others mentioned, but I think it less likely for an older sibling to record the births of younger siblings in his Bible than for a parent to record the births of his children.

    It does appear to me that the William with Margaret is the same one. He seems to be selling a lot of what he has…what if he left? What if he didn’t die in Edgecombe?

    It’s clear, though, that the Braddy family came into the possession of William Pittman’s book somewhere down the line.

    Traci Thompson

    October 23, 2012 at 10:22 am

    • Well the Stage is set, the curtain raised and the audience is all warmed up… I’m just awaiting the arrival of Miss Margret Braddy………………… where is she?

      And the idea that William may have moved is interesting… I hadn’t really considered it. But the fact of the “gap” of missing records for the 1780ish time period makes me think their records may also be missing? I’m still looking.
      ————
      After rereading the first page of the bible… it clearly establishes William as the father…

      mary Pittman
      The Daughter of
      William Pittman
      was?? Born december
      18th I?n 1755

      Now I’m curious about the son Joseph who according to the bible was born November 1757… here is an unaccounted for Joseph born September 10, 1757 who was drafted in 1779 Granville County…

      Southern Campaign American Revolution Pension Statements & Rosters
      Pension application of Joseph Pitman S7314     fn13NC
      Transcribed by Will Graves    9/8/09   http://revwarapps.org/
      State of North Carolina Burke County
      Personally appeared in Open Court before the Justices of the County Court of Pleas and quarter Sessions now sitting Joseph Pitman a resident of said County & State aged 75 years, my Father had a record of my age which said I was born on the 10th day of September 1757 — I have no other knowledge of my age except this record.  Said Pittman being duly sworn according to law doth on his oath make the following declaration in order to obtain the benefit of the act of Congress passed 7th of June 1832.
      That he entered the service of the United States under the following named officers & served as herein stated.
      I was drafted for three months in the County of Granville North Carolina in the year 1779 or 80 in the fall the year under Colonel William Gill & Captain John Walker we marched from Granville to Wilmington on the Cape Fear River where we were stationed for three or four weeks: we then marched up to Cross Creek, (now Fayetteville) while at Wilmington we were under General Butler — when we parted with him we marched up to Cross Creek.  From Cross Creek I was furloughed to come home where I remained about 2 weeks & was called out into service & marched on to High Rock on Haw River against the Tories.  We took several prisoners but killed none in battle.  I was discharged at that place by Colonel Gill he gave me a written discharge but it is lost I have not seen it for many years — sometime after I was again drafted for 3 months more & put under Colonel William Moore who lived in Caswell County & Captain Abram Potter we were marched on to reinforce General Gates but before we got to the South Carolina line we heard that he had got defeated & we turned our course towards Wilmington but before we got there we were turned to Pasquotank County after a band of Tories we drove them from that quarter & stationed there a few weeks & returned towards home — we were discharged at the end of our service by Colonel Moore between Wilmington & Cross Creek from which place I returned home — some eight or nine months after this I was drafted again for 3 months & when out against the Tories down towards New Bern I was then under Colonel Joseph Taylor Captain [indecipherable name] we were out about 2 months but done no good & we were furloughed to return home we remained at home but a short time till we were called on to go & reinforce General Green [sic, Nathanael Greene].  We marched up as to Col. Mebane’s end Orange County & there heard of the battle of Guilford Court House.  I Colonel then returned home & furloughed us all.  I was never called on afterwards.
      I was drafted once before I went into service myself & hired a substitute in consequence of the situation of my family we were once also classed & out of every 12th man one had to go for 18 months.  My class hired a man & paid him $100 each in Continental money.  This is my services as well as I can recollect.
      He hereby relinquishes every claim whatever to a pension or annuity except the present & declares that his name is not on the pension Roll of any State or the Agency of any State.
      Sworn to & subscribed day & year aforesaid
      Sworn to in open Court 28th of January 1833
      S/ J. Erwin, Clk    S/ Joseph Pitman, X his mark
      [James Buckhannon, John Davis, Robert Burchfield & Peter Epley gave the standard supporting affidavit.]
      Southern Campaign American Revolution Pension Statements & Rosters
      ————-
      I’m not convinced that William m.Judith Ross left the Nash/Tar River area because of the lapse of records… but IF he did move this is a William in Johnston County 1778:
      ???
      Dec. 12, 1778, Secretary of State Record Group, Johnston County
      File No. 1574, William Pitman, 200 acres, N. side Neuse River between Little River and Great Buffaloe

      he got 2 patents totaling 300 acres… anyone tracked this guy?

      anderson1951

      October 23, 2012 at 12:58 pm

  4. I took a look at the missing records thing, as I wasn’t aware of missing estates records in Edgecombe.

    The first thing to remember is that death produces a lot of different records that wind up in different places. The second thing to remember is that the estate record project at Family Search, while coming along nicely, is by no means a finished project (and they are always looking for volunteers!)

    Joseph W. Watson abstracted estate records of Edgecombe in 1970. In his introduction, he lists under “source material” that he covered Records of Estates, 1764-1772, and Records of Estates, 1772-1783, after which is the note “(comprises most of original Will Book B.)” He adds at the bottom of the page, “All of these books except one are to be found at the North Carolina Department of Archives and History…The one exception is the original Will Book B containing Records of Estates, 1772-1783, which book is in the office of the Clerk of Superior Court, Edgecombe County Courthouse, Tarboro.”

    David Gammon abstracted records pertaining to estates in 1989, covering 1761-1825. He states in his forward, “This volume contains abstracts of the loose estates papers for Edgecombe County which are currently held at the NC State Archives in Raleigh…it contains additional information not found in the Account Books and Court Minutes which are the primary source for Mr. Watson’s works. The original records consulted for this volume consist primarily of petitions, divisions and summons, many of which were never copied into the Account Books at all.”

    The guide to the county records held by the State Archives does not indicate a gap in the loose Estates Records, nor in the bound Record of Estates, but does indicate one in the Inventories and Accounts of Sale on microfilm: http://www.archives.ncdcr.gov/findingaids/co_guide.pdf

    This guide has a new edition; I checked it, and the info given is only slightly different. The Record of Estates now also appears in the microfilm section; the Inventories and Accounts of Sale entry for the 1700s timeperiod is gone.

    So, my question is, where is Will Book B? Did the Archives accesssion it after 1970, or is it still theoretically held by the Clerk of Court (which flooded in 1999?) I personally would be suprised if it didn’t make its way to the Archives. I will have to ask around about this.

    Bottom line, though, it was covered by Watson in his abstracts. So I checked Watson’s abstracts; the only references to a William Pittman (besides the ones already covered here) are after 1800. An interesting one, though is Daniel Ross, 1809, which indicates that Eliza Ross was his heir, and that William Pittman was her heir.

    So then I checked Gammon’s abstracts. And here’s something interesting…not sure if it blows the Braddy theory or not. Maybe not, due to the time period. Estate of Alexander Bilberry (variant Bilboy) contains a petition by William Pitman, dated Aug. 1819, for a share of the estate. “Record indicates the dec’d left two children: Peggy, now wife of William Pitman, and James Bilberry.” Something else to chew on.

    I looked through my EC court minute abstracts – and didn’t rely on the index, I read through it – from 1772 to 1783 but did not find any mention of William Pitman.

    The fact that he doesn’t seem to show up in ANY county record pertaining to death during that period really makes me think he didn’t die here…or that he didn’t die during that time period.

    And that Rev War Joseph…thought about him too, but the lack of evidence that that guy was ever in Edgecombe County makes me really doubt him.

    Traci Thompson

    October 24, 2012 at 10:31 am

    • Hmmm… I am now aware that certain questions will bring out the LIBRARIAN! in you… just kidding!
      Maybe Margaret Braddy has Will Book B? Sorry that was uncalled for. Thanks for taking the time to check all those sources.
      I’ve been using my limited resources (fancy way to say I’ve been searching the web and familysearch) and come up empty handed on a Wm Pitman outside of Edgecombe for that time. The one exception (from the NC Archive site) is that Wm in Johnston Co in 1778. Seems to be a records problem outside Edgecombe… Jethro Pitman moved to Johnston Co around 1794 and his records/ doings are nonexistant also.

      That Daniel Ross/Eliz 1809 record is interesting… the Bilberry is iffy in my mind because it was 1819…

      “IF” I am correct that these guys were sons of Robert then I look at their collective death dates…

      Joseph 1787
      Samuel 1812
      Arthur1814
      Jesse 1793
      I’m thinking William may be the oldest because he is first mentioned in 1754 along with Andrew Ross…hence possibly married before that time

      This Wm just seems to drop off the page in 1765 and a John Pitman assumes the property….

      April 21, 1774
      John (X) Pittman, Sr. to his son John Pittman, for love and affection
      100 acres on both sides of Stoney Creek, including the plantation where the said John Pittman, Sr. now lives, on the south side of the creek, being part of the tract of 160 acres that was a Granville grant to Andrew Ross dated Feb. 28, 1761, and conveyed by said Ross to William Pittman in his will, and by William Pittman conveyed to the said John Pittman, by deed dated Jan. 16, 1765.

      Of course this John fellow must be another son of Robert…
      ———————-
      I can’t in all honesty claim to know this is “that” William Pitman… he could be the White Oak Swamp William…
      1770 24 Feb. WILLIAM (X) PITMAN and wife, MARGET (X) PITMAN of Edgecombe Co. to Thomas Tucker of same, for £75 Proc. money a tract of 150 acres adjoining Green Hill’s line, it being the upper part of a deed granted by Earl Granville to James Tucker on May 10, 1762. Wit: Thomas Harbirt, Mathias Maning, Junr. DB D, p. 339.

      and these guys…

      July 1765

      [104] On Mocon of Margret SMITH Ordered that Sumon iss_ to cause William PITMAN to appear here to shew caus_ why Henry SMITH an Apprentice to sd. PITMAN may n_ be removed for (sic) his Service & that he likewise bring th_ sd. Henry with him at the same time.

      Oct 1765

      [109] A Deed of Sale from William DEFNALL to Willim PITMAN proved by Joshua VAUGHAN.

      Jan. 1767

      [139] A Deed of Sale from William DEFNELL to William PITMAN Proved by Thomas HARBERT.

      [140] A Deed of Sale from Arthur PITMAN to Willm. PITM__ by Hardy POWELL.

      May 1771

      [301] Deed of Sale from William PITMAN & Ux. to Thomas TUCKER proved by Mathias MANNING.

      [316] A Deed of Sale from William PITMAN to Samuel BATCHELOR proved by Thomas HARBERT.

      Edgecombe County, NC, Court Minutes, 1775-1785, Book III, Haun

      Jan 1775

      [4] A Deed of Sale from William PITMAN & Wife to Mark WALL proved by the oath of Matthias MUNNING.

      May 1785

      [316] A Deed of Sale from John PILAND to William PITMAN proved by Soloman FOUNTAIN.

      Book IV, Haun

      May 1789

      [174] 2. A deed of Sale from William PITMAN to John PILAND proved by John FORT.

      [386] A deed of Sale from Joseph ALLSOBROOK to William PITMAN proved by henry HARRISON.

      A deed of Sale from Narsworthy MIALS to John PILANT proved by William PITMAN.

      anderson1951

      October 24, 2012 at 12:11 pm

  5. Yep, certain questions do bring out my inner librarian, LOL! Maybe Margaret did run off with Will Book B…wouldn’t put anything past ’em at this point…

    My copy of Haun’s EC Court Minutes vol III has been misplaced, and I looked at Marvin K. Dorman’s abstracts. Apparently he missed something. Glad you posted the references above! So there are mentions of “a” William Pitman around between 1772-1783.

    Traci Thompson

    October 24, 2012 at 12:57 pm

    • I added a “Page” … Pitman/Braddy Bibele

      It adds some interesting twists to this sordid tale…

      anderson1951

      October 25, 2012 at 8:18 am

  6. I posted some Braddy stuff under the new Pitman/Braddy Bible page.

    Traci Thompson

    October 29, 2012 at 7:54 am


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