Andersons of Colonial N. Carolina

so I start this site in Virginia… go figure

The Joseph Pitman Game

with 22 comments

Read the post just before this to get a grasp of what this post is about.  With my vast audience I figure at least a dozen people are enthralled by this… maybe 13.

Below is a chronology of the “Court Minutes”, Book 1-4 of Edgecombe County 1757-1790.  I have extracted only the Joseph Pitmans out of the vast Pitman Pie.

The object of the game is to figure out the logical choice as to “who is the Joseph who was most likely left standing to sign the will of William Anderson in 1789.”… or Who is the last Old Phart Joseph left standing in 1788…. whichever, I’m flexible with rules.

The term “Quaker” is used below to identify a family group… while the later children may not be Quakers I still use it as a basis to link them to their earlier forebears and in some cases neighbors.

A distinctly different Joseph is who I refer to as the “Constable”.

Please let me know if you can identify any Joseph who is not connected to the “Quakers” or the “Constable.”

 Got it? Let’s go….

Joseph Pitman

Edgecombe Co., NC, Court Minutes 1744-1762 Book I, GoldenWest Marketing Genealogy, Temple City, CA

[187]   Feb 1757/8

Jos. PITMAN son of Robert (Overseer marked out) Constable in Room of George WIMBERLY

(This is a critical bit of info… this is “the Bailiff” referred to in the research of Donald Gordon. Note also that I have found only ONE Robert Pitman of this era and area. This Joseph was clearly born at least by 1736… I have a bible record of his brother Samuel b.1736. I think Joseph was born a bit earlier.) 

[191]   Feb 1757/8

Philip THOMAS in the room of Joseph PITMAN Overseer

[241]   Jun 1759

Wm. GREEN to Joseph PITMAN Deed prov’d by Jesse GREEN

(Nov. 24, 1758 William Green sold to Joseph Pitman 90 acres on the south bank of Tar River at the mouth of Deep Branch adjoinjng said Pitman…. Wit: Joseph (J) Pitman and Jesse Green.  These 2 Josephs are father and son… the “Quakers”… uh …. I think)

[267]   Sep 1760

Robert COLEMAN is appointed Oversr. of the Road from SWEETENS Landan (sic) on Tar River

to MIALS Bridge on SWIFT Creek.  Ordered that the following hands Work on the same, Towit:

John MOORE          John FOUNTAIN          Wm. ROLLINS          James BROWN

John HATCHER       Joseph PHILIPS          Joshua SIKES           Robert MANOR

Aaron ODUM           Andw. ROSS              John ONEALS           Wm. ANDERSON

Joseph PITMAN       Arthr. PITMAN            James STALLIONS    Gregory STALLIONS

Moses WOODWARD &       Robert COLEMAN

(note the neighbors… particularly William Anderson… these folks are clearly north of Tar River in 1760.  The 2 Josephs noted in [241] above are clearly south of Tar River)

[272]   Dec 1760

The last Will & Testament of Moses PITMAN Deced. was Exhibited by the Exrs. therein named

and at the same time Joseph PITMAN one of the People called Quakers affirmed that he saw the

sd. Moses PITMAN Execute the sd. Will & that he saw Jno. GAY & Jesse GREEN sign the same

as Evidence thereto & at the same Time the Exr. Qualified acco. to Law

  (note the name Jesse Green… see [241] above)

[301]   Sep 1762

Jonathan COLEMAN appointed Guardian of Aaron COLEMAN orphan of Charles COLEMAN

(Robert COLEMAN crossed out) & John MURPHREE & Joseph PITMAN Sec. in the sum of

£200 Proc.

( Jonathan Coleman married the sister of the wife of William Anderson… note the involvement of Joseph Pitman “the Constable”)

[304]   Sep 1762

Deed of Sale from Elizabeth PITMAN to Joseph PITMAN proved by Aaron COLEMAN

(Elizabeth Pitman’s property adjoined William Anderson… note above which Joseph Pitman gave Security for this Aaron……I say the Constable… what do you think?)

[310]   Sep 1761-Dec 1761

Ordred that Joseph PITMAN & John BAILY be appointed Searchers

  (I don’t know where Baily lived?…… sue me.)

[318]   Dec 1761-Mar1762

A Deed of Sale from Elizabeth PITMAN to Arthur PITMAN proved by Sherd. HAYWOOD Esq.

(note the presence of Arthur Pitman in [267] above and the proximity to Joseph Pitman. I say the Constable.)

(…further down the transcrpt)

A Deed of Gift from Henry HORN to Wm. HORN proved by the Affirmation of Joseph

PITMAN a Quaker

(need I point out the obvious? “the Affirmation bit”… Horn was south of Tar River and he was also a Quaker)

[342]   Sep 1762

A Deed of Sale from Arthur PITMAN to Joseph PITMAN proved by Wm. ANDERSON

(see [304] and [267]…. the Constable )

[343]   Sep 1762

A Deed of Sale from William GAY to Joseph PITMAN acknowledged

(William Gay was a Quaker and lived south of Tar River adjoining sd. Pitman)

[347]   Sep 1762

Ordred that the following Persons be a jury to lay off a Road from the foot of the New Bridge

to be built over the Tar river the nearest and most convenient Way into the road that leads

Tarbo. Towit:

(list of names including)   Joseph PITMAN…William ANDERSON

(I’m thinkin’ the Constable)

Edgecombe Co., NC, Court Minutes 1763-1774 Book II, GoldenWest Marketing Genealogy, Temple City, CA

[11]   Jan 1763

John BAILEY & Joseph PITMAN Searchers

(Baily again…where did he live exactly?)

[12]   Jan 1763

Joseph PITMAN constable in the Room of John MURFREE

(I think most folks will agree that being a Quaker came with a “stigma”… I can cite laws, particularly during the early 1700s of Perquimins Precinct/ County that specifically forbade Quakers from holding an office such as Constable.  My hunch is this is the son of Robert)

[18]   Jun 1763

Grand Jury retur’d towit:

Samuel CARTER          Hardyman POPE          James BOAZMANS          James KNIGHT

Joseph STRICKLAND    James WILLIAMS        Soloman NETTLE              Kindred CARTER

Robert WRIGHT            Arthur PHILIPS            Richd. THOMAS                Moses WOODWARD

Elias FORT                  Joseph PITMAN           James WILLIAMSON          John WATKINS

William BRYANT

who being Qualified withdrew to Business

Petit Jury returned &c towit,

(list includes William ANDERSON)

[25]   Jul 1763

Ann PITMAN is appointed Guardian to Ann, Jethro & Chloe PITMAN Orphans of Joseph PITMAN

Deceas’d giving Security in the sum of £500 Proc. Daniel ROSS & Jesse GREEN Security

(Quaker)

[27]   Jul 1763

The last Will & Testament of Joseph PITMAN Decd. was Exibited on Oath by the Exor. &

proved by the Oaths of James HORN & Mary GREEN two of the Subscribing Witnesses thereto

& at the same Time the Exors. were qualified accordg. to Law Ordred &c.

An Inventory of the Estate of sd. Joseph PITMAN was Exhibited on Oath & Orderd &c.

Ordred that Elisha BATTLE Esqr. Joseph SUMNER & Daniel ROSS or any two of them being

first duly qualified meet & divide the Estate of Joseph PITMAN deceas’d among the Widow &

Children of sd. Deceas’d & Return &c.

(Quaker)

[28]   Jul 1763

Ordred that Joseph PITMAN Exor. to the Estate of John GAY Junr? Deced. sell the Perishable

Part of the sd. Estate accordg. Law (sic) for the Benefit of the Devisee.

(Quaker)

[35]   Jul 1763-Oct 1763

Ordred that Anne PITMAN Guardian of the Orpans of Joseph PITMAN have leave to sell the

Perishable Part of the Estate of the sd. Orpahans & return &c. & that she likewise have leave

to sell a Mare and Colt which were of the Estate of the sd. Joseph PITMAN deced. and

not yet divided be sold to pay the Debts of the sd. Joseph & that the sd. Sale be held on

last? Friday in Novemr. next.

(Quaker)

[37]   Oct 1763

The Person appointed to Divide the Estate of Joseph PITMAN deced. havf? made return

Orddred (sic) to be recorded.

Addl. Invy. of Estate of Joseph PITMAN deced. being Ret. adm. to Record.

(see a pattern here?)

[49]   Jan 1764

Acct. Sales of the Estate of Joseph PITMAN Deced. Ord. &c.

(that Quaker thing…)

[58]   Apr 1764

William PITMAN is appointed Constable in Room of Edward LANE Ordred &c.

Lycence is on Mocon granted to Abram ALQUI__ to keep an Ordinary and Victualling house

at his dwelling Plantation he thereupon enterd into Bo__ with Isaac WILSON and Joseph

PITMAN Securities.

(with my concerns of the Quaker “stigma”, I hazard a guess that this may be the son-in-law of Andrew Ross who had property near William Anderson….  but the Ross’ had property in several areas of Edgecombe including the area of the Quaker Josephs.  But I may be blowing smoke because one of the Quaker Josephs served in the militia- 1750s…bottom line… I don’t know about this William guy… see [80] below.)

[66]   Apr 1764

Ordred that Elisha BATTLE, Sherwood HAYWOOD Esqrs __ ___SUMNER or any two of them

divide & settle the Estat_ __ Joseph PITMAN deced. and return &c.

(Quaker)

[70]   Jul 1764

The Persons appointed to divide & settle the Estate of Joseph PITMAN deced. return’d an

acct. thereof which ___ Ordred to be recorded.

(Quaker)

[80]   Oct 1764

A Deed of Sale from John HATCHER & Uxr. to Stephen BATCHEL__ proved by William PITMAN

A Deed of Sale from Robert ARMSTRONG to William PITM__ proved by Joseph PITMAN

A Deed of Sale from Robert ARMSTRONG to William PITM__ proved by Joseph PITMAN

(this is a headbanger because Stephen Batchelor and “a” William Pitman eventually obtained property in Nash Co.  I’ve tried to track this William to a point of frustration very near sobriety… I’m pretty near ticked off)

(I call it Quaker) 

[82]   Oct 1764

Joseph PITMAN is appointed Constable ___ the ensuing Year.

(ahh… the Constable… he must have liked the job)

[83]   Oct 1764-Jan 1765

John BAILEY and Joseph PITMAN Searchers for the Ensuing Year.

(who IS this John Bailey? and what exactly IS a Searcher?)

[87]   Jan 1765

Anne PITMAN Guardian of the Orphans of Joseph PITMAN hath leave to bring in her accts.

with sd. Orphans next Court.

(Quaker)

[92]   Jan 1765

The following Persons are appointed Constables for the ensuing Year, towit,

(list includes) Joseph PITMAN

(job security)

[117]   Jan1766

Anne PITMAN Guardian of Jethro Anne & Chloe PITMAN Orphans of Joseph PITMAN deced.

exhibited on Oath accts. of her Guardianship which were allow’d &c.

Joseph PITMAN Guardian of Thomas PITMAN Orphan of Joseph PITMAN deced. exhibited

his acct. by his Afirmation which was allow’d &c.

(Quaker… the “Afirmation thing”)

[144]   Jan 1767

Joseph PITMAN Execu. of the last Will & Testam__ of John GAY Deceaed Exhibited an acct

Current against the sd. Estate which was approved of and Ordered &c.

(son of the older Quaker)

[178]   Oct 1767

Ann PITMAN (accounts of her Guardianship…)

(Quaker)

[204]   Feb 1769

Joseph PITMAN Guardian of Thomas PITMAN A Legatee to John GAY decd. returned an acct. of

his Guardianship which was approved Ordered &c.

(ditto)

[249]   Feb 1770

Joseph PITMAN Overseer of the Road in the Room of Robert CARLISLE

(dunno… where did Carlisle live?)

[251]   Feb 1770

Joseph PITMAN Guardian of Thomas PITMAN exhibited an Acct. of his Guardianship

(“on Oath who” crossed out) Affermation Ordred &c.

(this could support an argument that he was a Quaker, but then I don’t think I need to)

Anne PITMAN exhibited…account of her Guardianship

  (Quaker)

[274]   Aug 1770

Joseph PITMAN Overseer of the Road in the Room of Robert CARLISLE

(that pesky Carlisle guy again?)

[291]   Feb 1771

Ann PITMAN Guardian of Jethro & Cloe PITMAN Orphans of Joseph PITMAN dec’d

exhibited an Acct. of the Guardianship of the last year which was approved of Ordered &c.

Joseph PITMAN Guardian to Thomas PITMAN Legatee of John GAY decd. exhibited

his account into Court which was aproved. Ordered &c. (sic)

(Quaker)

[297]   Feb 1771-May 1771

Joseph PITMAN is appointed Constable in the Room of Jonathan COLEMAN

(son of Robert… note how I just threw that in?)

[299]   same as above

Robert DIGGES is appointed Overseer of the Road in the Room of Joseph PITMAN

(must have been too busy Constable’in to mess with that Road crap)

[306]   May 1771-Aug 1771

The following Majestrates are appointed to take the List of Taxables for the Present

Year Vizt: (list includes) Joseph PITMAN

( I think a Constable was considered a Majestrate?)

[329]   Feb 1772

Joseph PITMAN (account of Guardianship…Thomas PITMAN)

Anne…(same)

(Quaker)

[348]   May 1772-Aug 1772

Joseph PITMAN (list of Magistrates…similar to above)

(similar to above [306])

[380]   Feb 1773

Ann PITMAN Guardian to Chloe PITMAN Orpan of Joseph PITMAN decd. exhibited

an Acct. of her Guar___ which was approved, Ordered &c.

(Quaker)

[381]   same as above

Joseph PITMAN (account of Guardianship…Thomas PITMAN)

(Quaker)

[405]   Apr 1774-Jul 1774

Joseph PITMAN continued Constable for the ensuing year.

(son of Robert)

[413]   Jul 1774-Oct 1774

Joseph PITMAN (list of Magistrates…to take List of Taxables)

(son of Robert)

EDGECOMBE COUNTY, NORTH CAROLINA, COURT MINUTES, 1775-1785, BOOK III, Haun

[18]    Apl 1775

3.   Jonathan COLEMAN is appointed Constable for the ensuing year in the room of Joseph PITMAN.

(son of Robert… don’t forget the Jonathan Coleman connection)

[31]    Oct 1775

A Deed of Sale from Joseph PITMAN & Wife to Thomas TEAT acknowledged.

(where did Teat live?)

[63]    Feb 1779

Joseph PITMAN is appointed Overseer of the Road in the room of Loveless SAVAGE.

____  _____ Robert CARLILE is appointed Overseer of the Road in the Room of Joseph PITMAN.

(this Carlile guy is beginning to irritate me.)

[128]   Feb 1780

Deed of Sale from Joseph PITMAN to William FOLK proved by the Oath of Joel HORN.

Deed of Sale from Joseph PRICE to Moses PITMAN proved by the Oath of Joel HORN.

(Is this Joseph Price related to the Price living next to William Anderson?  actually this Joseph Price lived near the Quakers) (I call this Quakers)

[231]   A Deed of Gift from Joseph PITMAN to Wm. FOLK? proved by Joel HORN.

(William Faulk was the son-in-law of Joseph Pitman of southside Tar River…. Quaker)

[320]   A Grant to Joseph PITMAN.

(hmmm…  I haven’t checked this grant?)

[346]   3. A Deed of Sale from Joseph PITMAN to Abner PITMAN proved by Ethd. PHILIPS.

(according to the research of Donald Gordon…”Joseph who first appears in Edgecombe records as a bailiff of the court had a son Abner (b. 1758) and grandson born 1787″.  …there is a purported bible reference supporting Abner as a son of Joseph the Baliff… but then, that pesky Quaker Joseph also had a son named Abner, noted in his will, 1787.  … what’s your call, Quaker or Constable?)

EDGECOMBE COUNTY, NORTH CAROLINA, COURT MINUTES, 1786-1792, BOOK IV, Haun

[67]    The last Will & Testament of Joseph PITMAN was proved by the oaths William EMSON and Frederick TERVATHAN Ord. &c.

(Quaker)

[71]    Feb 1787

Reuben JONES one of the executors named in the last Will and Testament of Joseph PITMAN decd. came into Court and qualified thereto.

Ordered that the perishable estate of Joseph PITMAN decd. be sold by the Exor. according to Law.

(Quaker)

[75]    Apl 1787

Amos PITMAN Orphan of Joseph PITMAN decd. aged Sixteen years is Ordered to be bound apprentice to Timothy MANNING to learn the trade of a Taylor.

(ditto)

[105]   Acct. Sales of the estate of Joseph PITMAN decd. exhibited on Oath by the exor.

(ditto)

[107]   Reuben JONES exor. of Joseph PITMAN decd. return’d his acct. Current agt. the sd. estate on Oath.

(ditto)

[121]   Jan 1788

Charity & Isaac PITMAN Orphans of Joseph PITMEN decd. being of lawfull age came into Court & chose Reuben? JONES Guardian.

(ditto)

[183]   May 1789

28.  A deed of Sale from Joseph PITMAN to Thomas PITMAN proved by Robert SHERROD.

(?) (The Joseph d.1763 left an orphan Thomas… I can’t call this because the 2 Quakers are dead and a pesky young Joseph shows up in an estate sale of an Amy Pitman of 1791 but its obvious this is a young phart that can’t be associated with the distinguished Old Pharts that I’m analyzing. Got it? Good… Let’s continue….)

[238]   May 1790

The Last Will & Testament of William ANDREWS decd. was proved by the Oaths of Elijah HORN & Joseph PITMAN & Elijah PRICE the exor therein qualified and at same time took out Letters Testamty.

(this is William ANDERSON)

[239]   May 1790

Inventory of the estate of William ANDERSON deceased returned on Oath by the exor.

(The will was signed by Joseph Pitman the son of Robert Pitman.   I think they knew each other since childhood and quite possibly were cousins.)  If you think this may be one of the mystery sons of Thomas Pitman from his 1750ish Will then I will just shake my head. Those kids would be young pharts.)

1790 Edgecombe County Census

Joseph Pitman  1 over 16,  2 males under 16,  2 females

(This is the only Joseph Pitman on the census… but if you are one of those who take a look at the neighbors it could easily appear that this guy is living south of the Tar River which would be one of the Quaker clan.  It is pure coincidence.)

Michael Horn

Sarah Barnes

John Pitman

Joseph Price

Ann Horn

Jethro Pittman (son of the Quaker Joseph, d. 1787)

Ann Pittman

Briton Adams

Amos Rose

Sion Trevathan

Frederick Trevathan  (witness to will of 1787…the Quaker)

Wm. Deloach

Wm. Elenor

Joseph Pitman  (son of Robert? or a young phart?)

(Until their senior years, William Anderson and Joseph Pitman lived northside Tar River near Swift Creek and near a little creek called Falling Run.  In 1787 Anderson moved southside Tar River just above the modern Wiggins Lake.  He made his will there. “a” Joseph Pitman was living just west of him.)

Edge. Co. Db 9, page 335, deed date 25 Mar 1797, recorded Feb Ct 1800,

John Haywood, Raleigh, NC to Michael Williams, Edge. Co for $250, a

tract on the west side of Deloachs Branch containing (220) acres being

part of a tract which Joseph Pitman presently lives & being the whole

of the land belonging to the said Haywood on the west side of Deloachs

Branch except that part where Joseph Pitman lives, containing 25 acres,

signed John Haywood, wit S. Haywood, John Hudson. Abstracted 9-27-06,

NCA film C.037.40009, CTC.

(the only Joseph this could be is the son of Robert… who was in the 1790 census, being that he was an Old Phart… otherwise it is a young phart.)

Got it?

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Written by anderson1951

January 11, 2012 at 8:24 pm

Posted in Uncategorized

22 Responses

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  1. Oh, I love this game! This will be fun…

    Do you have a page devoted to Robert Pitman? I need to learn more about him.

    These may be slightly out of order…

    Entry # 301 – how do you know this is Joseph the Constable?

    Entry # 187 – why do you think this is Joseph son of Robert?

    Entry # 83 – dunno about Bailey either. I’ll add that, and the definition of searcher, to my list of things to do.

    Entry # 347, 342, etc. – why do you think this is the constable?

    Entry # 12 – Quakers and stigma…I’m waffley on this one. I agree that there was stigma, but it did seem to fluctuate…I’ve seen where Quakers did hold certain offices. It probably all depended on the time and place.

    Entry # 249 – I know later some Carlisles turn up in the Whitakers area (Edgecombe/Nash line) so we’re probably still talking somewhere in western Edgecombe. But you probably knew that.

    Entry # 320 – I’ll see what I can find on the grant. Add it to my list of things to do.

    Entry # 346 – let’s go with “either.” But I’d like to see that Bible record.

    Entry # 183 – I’ll add this to my incredibly long list of things to do. I hope I live long enough.

    Entry # 239 – how do you know they might have known each other since childhood etc.? You know, young pharts could serve as witnesses. 🙂

    1790 census – looks like a list of the usual suspects. Have you tracked this Joseph forward from 1790?

    Traci Thompson

    January 12, 2012 at 3:34 pm

  2. Entry # 301 – how do you know this is Joseph the Constable?
    —-
    Its a hunch… (the proximity of the neighbors mostly) I think the Constable bought it first and the Quaker got it later. How’s that for a puzzle? To further complicate the puzzle I think the Constable had a son Abner and the Quaker had a son Abner. Now you know why I drink.

    Entry # 187 – why do you think this is Joseph son of Robert?
    —-
    The bit about Joseph “the son of Robert” is a verbatim quote from the Minutes. It is THE proof.

    Entry # 347, 342, etc. – why do you think this is the constable?

    The proximity of neighbors… plus I theorize he is the nephew of Elizabeth Pitman who had property adjoining William Anderson and that is the property you are referring to.

    Entry # 346 – let’s go with “either.” But I’d like to see that Bible record.

    I’d like to see the bible record too…

    “My grandfather was John Henry Pittman, son of Biscoe. Henry Elias was his grand father, his great grand father was Joseph. Joseph’s father was Abner, who was Joseph’s son moved to Edgecombe county about 1738. In 1806 Abner lived in Marion, SC.
    I have an orginal of Hobson Pittman’s biography written by Donald Gordan. Years ago mom gave it to me, because I have been research the Pittmans at the state of NC archives. I don’t know where she got it, but Hobson was her uncle.
    Also there was a family bible that listed Abner and Joseph. It only had them and no spouses or children. My mom didn’t know who they were. There names were just in it on a page with no reference.
    I have searched for Abner, but had a hard time. The counties changed so much, and they kept going back to Va, and occasionaly to SC, buying and selling property.
    On the 1800 census I found that Joseph had a male 45 and up. I feel like that was Abner. That makes him born before 1755, Hobson’s bio says he was born in 1758.
    I have all the Pitmans listed that I found. Edgecombe county roll 30 vol 2, micro copy 1957. Abner purchased the land of Joseph decd. at a sheriff’s sale which was formerly granted to Elizabeth. May 1 1806. Deed book 5 # 91. Now I know about when Joseph died. I am still searching myself, I thought if I could get enough on Joseph, father, Joseph son, then it would help me in my reasearch.” Commieanne Dowdy, Feb 2001

    Entry # 239 – how do you know they might have known each other since childhood etc.? You know, young pharts could serve as witnesses.

    [187] “highly suggests” his birth at least by 1736… Robert Pitman was his father… I think Robert’s sister was Elizabeth Pitman and the mother of William Anderson (b before 1733). They were cousins if my theory is correct.

    (This is all theory folks… don’t write it in a gedcom… Traci and I are just playing a game here)

    Deed book 5 # 91… I think this is the “Marion County” deed… I’ve heard it doesn’t state that Joseph is “deceased” … do you have a copy I can post? (a cell phone snap will work)

    I think the “Constable” was living here in 1797 (then he disappears) this is just west of where William Anderson was living when he died in 1789.

    Edge. Co. Db 9, page 335, deed date 25 Mar 1797, recorded Feb Ct 1800,
    John Haywood, Raleigh, NC to Michael Williams, Edge. Co for $250, a
    tract on the west side of Deloachs Branch containing (220) acres being
    part of a tract which Joseph Pitman presently lives & being the whole
    of the land belonging to the said Haywood on the west side of Deloachs
    Branch except that part where Joseph Pitman lives, containing 25 acres,
    signed John Haywood, wit S. Haywood, John Hudson. Abstracted 9-27-06,
    NCA film C.037.40009, CTC.

    But then, your input of the Amy Pitman estate of 1791 that brings in that young phart Joseph sure puts a crimp in my style.

    anderson1951

    January 12, 2012 at 6:22 pm

    • #301 – seems to me like all the Pitmans were pretty much neighbors regardless, but okay, I’ll humor you. The constable got it first and the Quaker got it later? How? Deed? Gift? Inheritance?

      # 187 – have no idea why I asked that. I think I am getting entry #s mixed up. And I haven’t even been drinking…yet.

      #347 – but how do you know that this Joseph was the constable? Or rather, how do you know that the constable had these neighbors? We only know that a Joseph had these neighbors, right?

      #346 – I don’t suppose there’s any possibility that Quaker Joseph and Constable Joseph could be the same person? (Try to forget the Quakers-holding-office thing for a minute.)

      #239 – I think this could be a completely different person.

      Deed book 5 # 91 – isn’t this the deed I posted a few days ago from 1788? This is an Edgecombe deed. Apparently the 1806 deed, which is also an Edgecombe deed, mentions that Abner is by then living in SC. Ok I might be starting to have an epiphany here…oh, and yes I have abstracts of the deeds, but let’s hold off on pics until I can get hold of the original.

      25 March 1797 deed – how did this Joseph acquire this land? And when?

      Sorry to crimp the style – I just gotta account for all the Josephs! It’s the name of the game you know. 🙂

      Traci Thompson

      January 13, 2012 at 11:33 pm

      • #301 – this will be a next stage to solving the puzzle and will need its own post… fair enough? It will involve DB 5, #91 and some very irritated genealogists changing their notes…. “if” I am right.

        #187 – Its overwhelmingly obvious to me that you have not consulted the advice of either Jack Daniels or Jim Beam in your thought process…… a serious misuse of readily available resources.

        #347 & 346 – How ’bout we use an assumption and not go for the “beyond a reasonable doubt” for now?

        #239 – In that case you win the game and I lose. I’ll review my notes with Mr Daniels and do some serious cross-thru revisions on a LOT of Pages. (scary thought)

        25 March 1797… he “may” be bankrupt and simply living there as a tenant (I don’t know) … I’ve since found another tidbit reference for 1801 where “a” Joseph is the witness… to keep it simple, the neighbor references in the deed are near the Wiggins Lake area (I think), near where I have him in 1797:

        Edge. Co. Db 13, page 307, deed date (20) Jul 1801, recorded May Ct
        1810, John Hines, Edge. Co. to my grandsons, John H. Walker (John Hines
        Walke) & William Walker for natural love and affection, and the further
        consideration of ten shillings, a tract of land, land is to be loaned
        to my son in law, Thomas Walker and his wife, Sarah Walker during their
        life but said Thomas and Sarah are not to sell land but may live on it
        during their natural lives, being part of a tract of land I bought of
        Isaac Hill beginning at a lying down oak Joseph Armstrong’s ( ) then
        south 31 ½ west to John Griffin line then along the said Griffin’s line
        to a pine a corner then along a line of marked trees 111 poles to a
        pine or hickory then a line of marked to Joseph Armstrong’s line 152
        poles to the first station, being 100 acres, signed John Hines, wit.
        Joseph Pitman, Joseph Armstrong (proved). Abstracted 1-26-04, NCA film
        C.037.40011, CTC.

        This might put him in the 1800 census … if this is the son of Robert then his brother Samuel dies 1812 at 76 yrs of age. (per the bible reference) Samuel stayed in the Halifax area his near his father Robert as evidenced by the militia rolls of 1754ish… Joseph showed up in militia in Edgecombe and not Halifax area.

        Kinfolks of Edgecombe Co NC 1788-1855
Abner PITTMAN bought land of Joseph PITMAN at sheriff’s sale formerly granted to Elizabeth Pitman, 5-1-1788. Deed book 5 # 91. (this is the 1788 reference I think you mentioned….. this is a HUGE conflict I’m trying to sort out) see #301

        Scroll back a couple Posts to the “Hugh Johnston problem with the problem Pitman”… I’ve tried to clarify some conflicts.

        anderson1951

        January 14, 2012 at 5:22 am

      • See here for my map that locates most of these characters… I’m convinced the Constable was living near William Anderson and Elizabeth Pitman.

        https://andersonnc.wordpress.com/pitman-ross-conundrum-map/

        The Constable (I would picture Andy Griffith of Mayberry but I don’t think “constable” was a sherrif and I just don’t have the heart to picture him as Barney Fife)…. he got the gig in 1758 and seems to maintain the job several years… he had to be living “somewhere” and I haven’t figured it out yet from deeds (hence I’m looking at the purchase of the Elizabeth Pitman in 1762). The abstracts just aren’t cutting it and I don’t have access to the films much less the originals.

        anderson1951

        January 14, 2012 at 6:09 am

  3. In regard to Robert Pitman… Forrest King has done a remarkable job of tracking the early Pitmans…

    http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~vaschsm/ForrestKing.html

    I have some scattered posts about him in some older posts… nothing really substantial to add to Mr King other than perhaps some maps showing where i think he was living (roughly)…

    See here for a map… scroll down to the post “tracking Robert Pitman”
    https://andersonnc.wordpress.com/page/6/

    anderson1951

    January 12, 2012 at 7:17 pm

  4. An aside just for hoots & giggles… (the author sounds like a Donald Gordon fan)

    http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=22915721

    anderson1951

    January 13, 2012 at 7:46 am

  5. Ok so…to recap and rally the thoughts…

    1.) Elizabeth Pitman gets a grant in 1749.
    2.) Elizabeth sells 200 acres of the grant to Joseph Pitman (including the part she lives on) and another part of 90 acres to Arthur Pitman, both in 1761.
    3.) Arthur sells 100 acres to Joseph in 1762.
    4.) Joseph Pitman gives a deed of gift to his “son Abner” 100 acres of the grant to Elizabeth Pitman in 1785.
    5.) A Joseph Pitman dies in 1786/7 and names a son Abner in his will.
    6.) Abner buys 100 acres of land that was part of Elizabeth’s grant and was then owned by Joseph Pitman, deceased, in 1788.
    7.) The Gordon guy, if he’s right, says Joseph, son of Robert and father of Abner, was the constable.
    8.) It looks to me like the people in #s 1-5 are the same people.

    Therefore…

    Constable Joseph died in 1786/7, is probably not a Quaker, apparently had a close relationship to Elizabeth, and apparently is not the signer of Willam Anderson’s will.

    Traci Thompson

    January 18, 2012 at 10:16 am

    • Whoa!… hold your horses…

      3. Read this abstract carefully… it says that this property is “adjoining” the Elizabeth Pitman property. You’ll remember that this may even be a part of the James Pitman deal of when? 1742 or 1746? sale. We may be talking about two completely different properties (side by side) that just happen to be owned by two different Josephs with two different Abners as sons.
      (this is why I need the actual deeds to ponder… the abstracts just don’t cut it to solve this nitpicky of a conundrum.

      You can’t crow yet because the overweight lady hasn’t finished singing at the baseball game. 🙂

      Oh… and you keep forgetting… the Joseph died 1787 was in an extremely awkward status to sign William Anderson’s will in 1789 (being that he had assumed room temperature).

      anderson1951

      January 18, 2012 at 11:28 am

      • #3 – I didn’t mean to imply that the land in this transaction was the same as Elizabeth’s grant; I was merely meaning to illustrate Arthur and Joseph’s interaction with each other. However, I couldn’t have said this better myself…”this may even be part of the James Pitman deal.” Precisely. If it is, then one of these guys may have inherited it as an heir of James (read: son.) Hmm, even with the definite possibility of multiple same-name folks, two mirror images living right beside each other is pushing it a bit, I think. I haven’t seen anything that would make me suspicious of more than one Joseph/Abner set. (And although Joseph is terribly common, Abner not so much.) I’ll see what I can do about images of the original deeds.

        Whaddya mean I keep forgetting? My point is that Joseph the constable and Joseph d. 1787 are looking like the same person. You kept saying Constable Joseph witnessed William Anderson’s will. But he – neither one – whatever – can witness a will. Dead as a doornail. Nope, no witnessing.
        ———————–
        Marc’s comments…
        First… Joseph the Quaker died 1787… it is impossible for him to witness the will in 1789.
        Second… Who do you think DID witness the will in 1789? You do acknowledge a Joseph Pitman signed the will?
        Thirdly… Who do you think the Arthur is? Only one I come up with is a son of Ambrose Pitman of Halifax.
        Finally…Joseph the Quaker names a son Abner in his will
        Joseph the Constable has son Abner per Gordon’s research (Gordon was a Pitman descendant)
        Am I using the wrong terminology when I say “witness” a will?… should I say “signed” the will?

        Traci Thompson

        January 18, 2012 at 10:25 pm

  6. Do I win the game? 😉

    Traci Thompson

    January 18, 2012 at 10:17 am

    • No… you have to throw me down, sit on my back, twist my ankle and make me yell UNCLE! before I concede this easily.

      anderson1951

      January 18, 2012 at 11:29 am

  7. Oh, I should also add that Joseph who d. 1786/7 also names wife Hannah in his will; Joseph Pitman and wife Hannah sold 100 acres which was part of the grant to Elizabeth Pitman to Thomas Teate in 1775.

    Traci Thompson

    January 18, 2012 at 10:46 am

    • Is that info from an abstract? I’m getting a bit nervous here…

      anderson1951

      January 18, 2012 at 11:31 am

  8. Dadgummit, I just replied and then lost the whole thing somehow. I’ll do it again tomorrow. Instead I’ll say this…regarding the searcher question earlier…according to Leary’s NC Research, a “searcher” was synonymous with “overseer” which was basically synonymous with “patroller” (“paddy-roller”), i.e., someone appointed to keep the peace in a particular district, make sure slaves were behaving, free persons of color were following the many rules that applied to them, etc.

    Traci Thompson

    January 18, 2012 at 11:24 pm

    • Sounds like something left over from the “Inquisition”. Star Chamber wannabes. I wonder if a robe with a hood was required garb for the gig? 🙂
      Thanks for that tidbit… now I can sleep at night.

      “Close thy mouth woman… a searcher is behind yon tree.”

      anderson1951

      January 19, 2012 at 5:29 am

      • Uh..well maybe not *quite* like that… :/

        Ok, I’m rested and ready. Here we go…

        From the original “Problem Pitman” page:

        Wills for Edgecombe County by Williams and Griffin
        Joseph Pitman Dec. 18, 1786 feb. ct. 1787
        Wife Hanah bequeath 5 negroes, bed of furn. it being the esate I had with her by maregd when Isaac reaches maturity residue divied between chil: Abner, Isaac, Elizabeth, Hanah, and Charity Pitman.
        Exr. Robert Boothe, Reuben Jones, Sion T revathan,
        Witness William Emson (Amason) Robert Trevathan and Frederick Trevathan.
        Pitman, Joseph, inventory taken by Reubin Jones, exr., included 100 acres of land, no date, Feb Court 1787.
        Account of sale by Wm. Fort, D. Sheriff, and Reubin Jones, exr., Feb. 23, 1787, October Court 1787.
        Account current with the exr., October Court 1787.

        Dr. Stephen E. Bradley, Jr., abstractor, Edgecombe County, North Carolina Deeds, Volume 2: 1768-1778 (Virginia Beach, VA: Bradley, 1995), p. 81, entry # 837-(63) [from Deed Book 3]:

        “Joseph Pitman & his wife Hannah (x) of Edgecombe Co to Thomas Teate of same. 1 Sep 1775. 25 [pounds] 10 s[shillings] proclamation [money]. 100 acres which was part of a grant to Elizabeth Pitman 25 Mar 1749, on the north side of Tar River & on Doehead Pocoson, joining Thomas Price. Sd femme relinquished right of dower. Wit.: Michael Haywood, Sherwood Haywood. Oct Ct 1775.”

        traci thompson

        January 19, 2012 at 10:47 am

  9. And now for another recap…

    This all looks like the same Joseph, with wife Hannah, from the 1761 deed from Elizabeth to Joseph and on down. And I don’t think he was a Quaker. And of course he didn’t sign the will, he’s dead. Sign, witness, whatever.

    Who signed the will? Another Joseph. Who is he? Don’t have enough info to know yet. But undoubtedly he’s a son of one of the half-million Pitmans in the area.

    And what of the constable? Good question. Joseph d. 1787 might be the constable, or he might not. I don’t think we have enough info to know that yet either. If the constable had a son named Abner, then he might be the same person. OR, Mr. Gordon may have confused two different Josephs. If he has info within his family that the line is Robert to Joseph to Abner, then that carries weight. But if not…maybe not.

    And then there’s this, that I found rather by accident:

    Post by Myra Sims, 18 December 2004, Pittman Family Genealogy Forum, in reply to: Re: Thomas Pittman b1614, Thomas II 1634, T’as III 1659, R’bt 1692, Joseph 1735?, Ab
    http://genforum.genealogy.com/

    Your Joseph PITMAN according to to Edgecombe Co., NC Court Records 1757-1759 (LDS No. 0370142) show James PITMAN to be his father. James PITMAN’s wife was Elizabeth. I did not copy the probate records.
    Your Joseph PITMAN lived North side Tar River,Swift Creek, Doehead Pocoson.
    James PITMAN land grant 5 May 1742 North side of Tar River
    & Northside falling Run, joining a Great Pond.
    I was trying to sort out the Joseph PITMAN’s when I found James PITMAN was father of Joseph PITMAN who married Hannah.
    Myra

    This would fit perfectly with my theory: that Elizabeth was an Anderson, had son William, then married James Pitman, probably had a few children by him, two of which are most likely Joseph and Arthur (the later references to a James Pitman may belong to them too). I have not seen the above reference, but believe you me, I will be pursuing it.

    traci thompson

    January 19, 2012 at 11:04 am

    • Very impressive… I’ve read some of the Myra Sims posts… I give her credit for the Thomas Pitman d.1754 leads.
      So we are racing with different theories and yours is entirely plausible. AND to add to your cause is the DNA thing (remember I have multiple matches with Brantleys)… He may be the Don Juan who swept Elizabeth “Anderson” off her feet in 1730 and then Phiiit! He wuz gone! (the old Hee Haw song).

      Oh… and you still haven’t won the game yet.

      anderson1951

      January 19, 2012 at 12:27 pm

      • I’ve contacted Myra Sims to see if she can enlighten me with evidence. I’ll let you know how that goes. Can I take a look at your DNA results?

        Gee whiz, this isn’t enough ankle-twisting, huh? Well, am I at least ahead? 🙂

        BTW, can I contact you privately? Like email? Got a few questions related to info sharing, etc.

        Traci Thompson

        January 19, 2012 at 2:55 pm

  10. If proof shows up for James Pitman with sons Joseph and Arthur then I will go all out in proclaiming your victory and use ALL CAPS… ah heck… I will even use BOLD CAPS.

    anderson1951

    January 19, 2012 at 3:09 pm


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